Accepted alfanso died

Discussion in 'Accepted/Denied Appeals' started by jb, Jan 16, 2020.

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  1. jb

    jb Atom

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    Steam Name: jb
    Steam ID: STEAM_1:0:52007838

    Character Name:
    Alfanso Scaramucci
    Member of Staff Who Banned Your Character: @shad

    What Led To Your Character's Death?:

    Searched for having loyalist armband sticking out of front shirt pocket instead of on arm (187, failure to identify), but I kept a UU radio I gained from from Terminal employment, and was killed for having said radio (69, possession of resources).

    Why Should Your Character Be Unbanned?:
    Please see the following quote from The Terminal Megathread:
    It is not a ridiculous to assume that the UU radio comes with the boost to red tier, as one can only take the UU radio if they take the red tier boost, similar to the Union Card. Moreover, there is no stipulation in the megathread which specifies the mandated return of the benefits afforded to Terminal employees. This means, at least on an OOC level, there is no basis for a PK.
    Furthermore, there have been several occasions over the past two weeks where I was stopped and prosecuted for various crimes, and at no point was I questioned about my possession of the UU Radio, even without being a UU employee.
    Considering the above, even if owning a UU Radio as a loyalist is illegal and punishable by death, I should not be punished with a PK as there is clearly OOC ambiguity. Therefore, I propose that not only I be unPK'd, but that the Terminal megathread is updated with benefit clarifications and employment termination rules to prevent similar future incidents.

    Date Of Occurrence: 1/15
    Evidence:
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "It was terrible. Terrible!"
    [Green AB||165 cms tall||in her 20s||c...] says "You got hurt?"
    *** [A blanked out Russian standing at 5'2...] changes the position of the icepack, applying it to her frontal lobe just as gingerly as before.
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Okay, one more question. ::>"
    [[Blue A/B] A young woman with a stron...] says "No. I'm gonna donate some blood."
    [Green AB||165 cms tall||in her 20s||c...] says "Ooh!"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Why is your armband in your breast pocket and not on your arm? ::>"
    [Green AB||165 cms tall||in her 20s||c...] says "That's very nice of you."
    [[Blue A/B] A young woman with a stron...] says "Hehe."
    [Green AB||165 cms tall||in her 20s||c...] says "As always."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Fantastic question. The armband doesn't fit over my arm. I got it when I was skinny, now I am, er... ."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "I am robust."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "It's no longer in my size."

    *** Raymond Lee places a hand over his heart: "It hurts in here. Only... Fun meds can fix that."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: You're a fuckin' lard arse is what you are, you should be *wearing* it at all times. ::>"
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Offica', I believe I made an appropriate sacrifice in lieu of it being in my arm. However, if you insist, I shall cooperate!"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Listen to me. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: You don't seem to understand. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: When you shit, you wear it. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: When you shower, you wear it. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: When you sleep, you wear it. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: When your husband fucks you, you wear it. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: I don't give a fuck. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: You wear it. ::>"

    *** Raymond Lee jumps off the stretcher, grabbing his clothes before putting them on
    *** Alfanso Scaramucci takes the armband out of his front pocket and stretches it over his fat arm. It is indeed quite tight, and it bulges his fat on either side of the band. "Yeah, gotcha."
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Right-whose bleeding?"
    Raymond Lee says "Who is this fatass?"
    [[Blue A/B] A young woman with a stron...] says "Bleeding?"
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Are you bleeding?"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Well, seems we have some time while the lovely medic here deals with the other patients. ::>"
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Who the fuck you think you are, callin' me a fatass?"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: SO! While we wait. ::>"
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Only I can call myself a fatass."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Why do n't you get on the wall? ::>"

    [[Blue A/B] A young woman with a stron...] says "Not right now no. I'm here to donate blood."
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Hold on-."
    Raymond Lee says "Sure, fatso."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Ah, c'mon now. It was displayed prominently on my breast!"
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Right-c'mon, not in here, please-I'd like to get his kidney before you ruin him."
    Raymond Lee says "Good bye, cousin officer."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: I honestly do not know how to respond to that, SO, I'm just going to tell you to face the wall again. ::>"
    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "What's with the hold up? This is a medical union."
    Raymond Lee says "Oh, yeah."
    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "Hell, this guy next to me seems pretty hurt. You gonna let 'im through or what?"
    [A blanked out Russian standing at 5'2...] says "No, this is Union Medical."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Aw, c'mon! I even gave you my story and everything!"
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Can I take his kidney before you screw him up?"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Ehhhhhhhhh... Give him general anaesthetic with no opiod or painkilling aftereffects. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: And sure. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Personally, I like methohexital. ::>"

    [An anonymous Civil Protection officer...] says "<:: Out of curiosity, how many kidneys have you harvested so far? ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Fast acting, short lasting. ::>"
    *** [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] nods: "A dozen or so."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Not enough! ::>"
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Right-with me."
    [An anonymous Civil Protection officer...] says "<:: A dozen. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: The Union demands more. ::>"
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "I change my mind. I want ta' keep my kidney."

    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Me? Or the building as a whole?"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Keep the kidney lose a tooth. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Lose the kidney, keep the tooth. ::>"

    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "Like I'd give up my kidney. Sure, life sucks, but I rather enjoy what I still got."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Keep a kidney or lose a tooth..."
    [[Red A/B]A pale-faced, dead-eyed woma...] says "Do it, man."
    [[Red A/B]A pale-faced, dead-eyed woma...] says "You get DCD."
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "You'd look much prettier with a full set of teeth."
    Need help? Use /help to contact all online staff members, or /PM one directly.
    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "So what, Union's harvesting organs now, and for what? I don't see a line of kidney transplant needin' people."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "I ain't need DCD! I was donating my kidney for the good of the Union. Besides, I think I'd rather lose a tooth."
    [An anonymous Civil Protection officer...] says "<:: Dozen kidneys- Madness. ::>"
    [[Red A/B]A pale-faced, dead-eyed woma...] says "Do it."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Fair enough then. ::>"
    *** [A civil protection officer with a sin...] reaches to their earpiece, muttering once more
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "C'mon, lets get it over with. Square in the jaw!"

    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "Hey, buddy, better watch out in here."
    [Caucasian man standing at 5'8. Extrem...] says "Quite the party."
    You can join our forums at nebulous.cloud - which can also be accessed via the /forums command
    [[Red A/B]A pale-faced, dead-eyed woma...] says "I mean, we probably have equipment for tooth removals."
    *** [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] inhales sharply, slipping her hands onto her head and then back into her hair, glaring up at the ceiling idly as she mutters something incomprehensible before dropping her attention back off to the side.
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Right-I can handle you."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Alright then, face the wall. ::>"
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "In here."
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Sit down."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Can't just hit me 'ere?"
    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "Yeesh...What's with all the kidney and tooth talk?"
    *** [A civil protection officer with a sin...] attempts to restrain the man with some zipties
    [[Red A/B]A pale-faced, dead-eyed woma...] says "You want to give us your kidney?"
    *** Alfanso Scaramucci doesn't resist
    *** [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] procures an empty IV bag, a pair of alcohol wipes and a bandaid, stepping back over by the bed as she arranges the IV bag onto the pole by the bed.
    *** [A civil protection officer with a sin...] pats the man down thoroughly, going through his belongings and containers
    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "...Fuck no! I've already lost way more ever since the damn war, I ain't giving up another quality of life!"
    *** [[Blue A/B] A young woman with a stron...] rolls up her sleeve, exposing her upper arm
    *** [Caucasian man standing at 5'8. Extrem...] chuckles.
    [[Red A/B]A pale-faced, dead-eyed woma...] says "Get over it. The war was seven years ago."
    [A blanked out Russian standing at 5'2...] says "Seven?"
    [A blanked out Russian standing at 5'2...] says "Double it and you've got your answer."
    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "Yea, well I rather enjoy life with a pair. Besides, I don't see a big ole line of people that need the damn things."
    [[Red A/B]A pale-faced, dead-eyed woma...] says "Same difference. A long time ago."
    *** [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] opens the pack of alcohol wipes and dabs it over the woman's vein before taking hold of the needle and puncturing it into her system. Blood begins to flow up through the tube and into the baggy.
    *** [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] glances over to the woman as she retrieves her PDA: "Name and CID?"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] whispers on radio: "<:: Tag 69 on 10-91D. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Follow me. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Actually. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Follow me. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Go in there. ::>"

    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "We'll have to have it tested the-."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Susan, come here. ::>"
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "I'm-.."
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "With a patient?"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Fine ,finish up on that then I'll talk with you. ::>"
    *** [[Red A/B]A pale-faced, dead-eyed woma...] sighs, shaking her head
    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "Well apparently you need kidneys really fuckin' badly, but I can't seem to see what the reason is. Either way, I ain't giving up shit, not for money, not for benefits, nothin'!"
    *** [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] slips her PDA back into her sidebag, sniffling idly as she then disconnects the needle from the woman's vein, hanging it up onto the pole and allowing the excess to flow into it. After applying a bandaid over the puncture mark, the doctor nods: "I'll note it on your file.. you're free to go."
    *** [[Blue A/B] A young woman with a stron...] stands up from the table
    [[Blue A/B] A young woman with a stron...] says "Thanks."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Come here. ::>"
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Right-what is it?"
    [A shy, but humble and well-spoken man...] says "Sheesh, I was gonna get a bruise checked out here, but I think I'll pass. I rather walk out of this union with all my organs inside my body."
    [A blanked out Russian standing at 5'2...] says "What?"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Follow me. ::>"
    [[RED TIER ARMBAND: ON] A displeased w...] says "Hnhhff.."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Go to the end wall. ::>"
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Just face it for me. ::>"
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Alright, let's get this beating ova' with."
    [A civil protection officer with a sin...] says "<:: Yeah, it's just a beating. ::>"
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Ain't my first party."
    *** [A civil protection officer with a sin...] slowly re-clips their baton, trying not to make any noise as they slowly pull out their USP-M, gingerly raising it to the man saying "<:: Just a beating... ::>"

    Dispatch broadcasts "Citizen reminder: Inaction is conspiracy. Report counter-behavior to a Civil-Protection team immediately."
    Alfanso Scaramucci says "Can we hurry this up? My pal's was gonna wait for me to be done with the kidney shit."
    *** [A civil protection officer with a sin...] nods their head a couple times, aiming down the barrel of their weapon, muttering out "<:: Yeah, it'll be over quickly, don't worry. ::>" they slowly ease back on the trigger with a sigh, sending a singular shot to the back of the mans head
    *** The fat Italian hits his head on the wall once the bullet impacts the back of his skull. Within an instant, the man is dead. As he falls to the ground, a trail of blood follows him down on the wall.

    Other Players Involved: @Husky
    Any Other Details: n/a
     
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  2. Deathwolf

    Deathwolf Molecule
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    Husky kills another italian....

    I’ve seen many citizens that hold onto their UU radios, intact the beautiful ‘River’ has one too @Husky
     
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  3. Rabid

    Rabid Rictal-Approved

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    I do just wanna say that I'm 99% this comes from @Snowl having missed this when he was updating the faction rules as we actually got talking about this sort of thing not a couple of days ago.

    While @jb should have been mandated to pass the radio back in it was just an oversight given it wasn't in the faction rules at that point and not his fault because he had no way to know.

    Justified, but the PK obviously shouldn't stick.
     
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  4. Smallfries

    Smallfries The blind gamer
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    From what I understand, though you make a good point, having a UU radio or any radio is still 69 PoR. Even if the Terminal has no rules saying that you will have your stuff removed, it’s still illegal to have it nonetheless. In my view, though it may seem a bit unclear from your perspective, the kill was justified.
     
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  5. Husky

    Husky Wrote the official gay agenda for George Soros
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    You're not a union employee nor do you own a store nor do you have anything on your file permitting you to own a radio.

    To break down your arguments here:
    It does not, no.

    The radio comes from your employment within a Union faction.
    A red tier is permitted a Union Card, not a UU radio.

    Then that's a fault of your megathread.

    Other peoples incompetence doesn't nullify you from the rules.

    Then make a suggestion to lower it to 95 and not 69.

    Every other factions guidelines have this in it, I don't see why it isn't in Terminals.

    It's been stated before that negligance of the law does not nullify you from the law.
     
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  6. Deathwolf

    Deathwolf Molecule
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    why have i seen citizens carry the radio around no problemo?
     
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  7. Smallfries

    Smallfries The blind gamer
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    Either they’ve been authed it, they are a Union employee, or they’re breaking the law
     
  8. Husky

    Husky Wrote the official gay agenda for George Soros
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    Some of them are store owners, in which case they are allowed it. Some are also given radios by CAB for specific reasons. However, all citizens with the radio are marked on their datafile that it's permitted.
    Merged:
    I got that from faking my employement in UIL from a rogue member within UIL. Hence why I wasn't killed for it. I wasn't actually a UIL employee but for all intents and purposes, to cops, I appeared like one.
     
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  9. Rabid

    Rabid Rictal-Approved

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    Going to bed but this was honestly just the result of Snowl needing to update the faction megathread a little for something he missed (which again I was just discussing with him a day or two back). Doubt he'd have let the guy walk out the door with something that'd get him axed OOCly otherwise.

    The PK itself was valid in regards to why it was done but I don't think it should stick. Can't blame JB when he followed the guidelines he had and two weeks worth of cops don't pick up on the radio.
     
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  10. jb

    jb Atom

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    I am glad we agree. There is a reason for employment termination guidelines. AFAIK, every other faction requires the OOC relinquishment of resources, unless you have rogue auths. See:
    As far as I and several other cops were aware, the UU radio came with the tier.
    Ignoring that, the megathread states specifically that only those who accept the boost to red tier are permitted a UU Radio. As such, it is reasonable to assume that it is a reward which comes with the tier, rather than with the job. This is reinforced by the fact that UU employees have broad restrictions with or without a loyalist tier.

    In any other circumstance the charge and the PK would be valid, however I shouldn't be punished for ambiguity outside of my control.
     
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  11. Smallfries

    Smallfries The blind gamer
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    Ignorance of rules doesn’t exclude you from them imo, this extends to ic laws and regulations of materials
     
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  12. Rabid

    Rabid Rictal-Approved

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    But it wasn't ignorance of the rules, as it wasn't an IC law he broke.

    It was a faction rule being worded poorly and lacking the second part that every other faction has. He walked out of the door with a radio because of an OOC rule, not an IC law.
     
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  13. Husky

    Husky Wrote the official gay agenda for George Soros
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    No it doesn't.

    No, that doesn't make sense at all, literally no other faction works like this, why would you assume Terminal is an exception?
    Merged:
    That's still ignorance on IC rules. As I said, no other faction works like this, the rules are rules.
     
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  14. Snook

    Snook Moderator
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    Context is important that he followed what it says in the megathread for his faction, “ignorance” wasn’t ignorance when he was trying to be informed through his own megathread.

    I don’t think it’s reasonable to say that someone should have to check their own factions megathread against other threads and guidelines and fact check it themselves, that’s beyond what I would consider reasonable and it wasn’t his responsibility as a faction member .
     
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  15. jb

    jb Atom

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    I tried to follow the rules set in place by my faction. Other faction rules don't apply tangentially just because other, similar factions have similar rules.
     
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  16. Raiden

    Raiden Submit to the Three, thy spirits and thy lords.

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    I just want to make an added part:

    I am also certain I, at some point, authorised Scaramucci a Union radio due to his position as a Tribune., as Senator Kosan. He had strong ties with the SDPK and was an important member of the Democractic Assembly of Kiev and **technically** still is ICly since the DAK hasn't formally been repealed yet.
     
  17. Rabid

    Rabid Rictal-Approved

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    But this situation wouldn't have happened had the OOC rules of the faction he left matched up to the others. Every faction is different, nobody caught it and clearly enough cops were under the impression to not amputate him for it sooner. It wasn't just him who thought so.

    It's situations like this that cast Civil Protection in a poor light (as much as I try to defend them from unfair jabs) when people push for hyper-adherence rather than being willing to take a step back due to surrounding factors. You're pushing for a PK here despite the rules of his faction having an error in them that should be corrected.

    You lose literally nothing by just going "yeah fair play, the guy's faction rules need updating" and carrying on with your day. You're trying to frame this like he knew he shouldn't have kept the radio when, over two weeks, no cop shot him for it.
     
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  18. Snook

    Snook Moderator
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    Keeping this PK on him is saying that it is the faction member’s responsibility to directly fact-check their lead’s statements to make sure they’re factual and adhere to the rules when I believe that it is the faction lead’s responsibility, not the members.

    The megathread is an extension of the faction lead and, as a former lead of the faction who helped form the megathread, our oversight should not justify an end of a character. That’d be unfair and context and factors are important in deciding if a PK should stick.
     
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  19. Husky

    Husky Wrote the official gay agenda for George Soros
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    Okay so, you were allowed to resign from Terminal with your boost, and a UU radio after a few months in Terminal, then you assume that you are allowed to keep the UU radio, and bear in mind, nothing on the megathread about resignations from what I can see. You're just inferring from what was said about your employment into Terminal.

    What you did was still 69 and possess of resources, the PK is entirely valid.

    From what I can see from the reward redemptions as well, the last one you got was a hat. All other union factions require resignation as a reward. Wtf is going on with the terminals megathread and rules? Why are people being allowed to take the boost and resign with no reward cost or anything? Why is there nothing about it on the megathread? This seems... Very lackluster, to put it lightly.
     
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  20. Deathwolf

    Deathwolf Molecule
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    not every faction has to be bog standard boring shit, holding such a high posistion in a union faction, i would have thought you’d understand this
     
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