Resolved Frank Steiner's PK Appeal

[Verräterpackaging]

Your Steam Name: Traitorverpackung
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:76061648


Character Name: Lt. Frank "Frankfurt" Steiner
Member of staff who banned your character: Not banned yet!
Character/Player who carried out the PK (If known): Combine, in the future.

Describe how your character died: He is being made a stalker.
Why do you believe your PK is invalid?:

The cops attacked the bridge today, sending one shell and preparing an ambush. I was running there, and when I got close, they showed. Instead of going for any S2K directly, I wanted some more RP and surrendered. I was captured and taken back. Then I lost both my legs, and will be made a whole stalker soon.
What I did thought would happen is me being glacked and executed with NLR. But atleast with some more RP than just drawing your weapon. I could've opted for the other option to just shoot back and open fire to recieve an NLR on the bridge, since our base has been attacked. I didn't, under this misconception.
I OOCly don't plan to be a stalker, really. So I wanna fix this logic mistake, it makes sense that I'd be NLRed instead and loose my gun instead of losing both my legs.

Date of occurrence: Today, an hour prior.
Evidence (screenshots, logs): Not needed.
Any other parties involved: DEFENDER-1, captured me.
Misc details: Nothing right now.

 

[Oswald]

not involved but I thought if someone didn’t want to be a stalker they didn’t have to be and could be nlr’d instead, it does seem like that to me from this old announcement

 

[Ron]

not involved but I thought if someone didn’t want to be a stalker they didn’t have to be and could be nlr’d instead, it does seem like that to me

He voluntarily surrendered to us and did not say anything in LOOC indicating he would've rather have been NLR'd.

I will say, there is time for your character to ICly escape from captivity, so it isn't a complete death sentence for you

 

[Oswald]

He voluntarily surrendered to us and did not say anything in LOOC indicating he would've rather have been NLR'd.

I will say, there is time for your character to ICly escape from captivity, so it isn't a complete death sentence for you

I mean he has expressed that, and maybe he didn’t know?
Why didn’t anyone ask him if he was ok with it?
I mean the information is posted on the COMBINE psa so why would a rebel main even know it was optional? If I was in the position I’d ask the rebel and explain their options

 

[Ron]

Why didn’t anyone ask him if he was ok with it?

I don't care if this is accepted or not, I'm just saying that it isn't over for his character yet since they have literal OOC days to escape, and multiple days before further stalker steps are taken.

 

[Oswald]

I don't care if this is accepted or not, I'm just saying that it isn't over for his character yet since they have literal OOC days to escape, and multiple days before further stalker steps are taken.

And if he doesn’t get broken out of a combine facility in that time frame he’ll be continued down the road of becoming a stalker and “perma’d” and at that point him asking to be set free will seem disingenuous

 

[Ron]

And if he doesn’t get broken out of a combine facility in that time frame he’ll be continued down the road of becoming a stalker and “perma’d” and at that point him asking to be set free will seem disingenuous

yes, if he doesn't escape or get broken out. Once time is up, it is essentially a PK since stalkers aren't really characters anymore.

 

[Oswald]

yes, if he doesn't escape or get broken out. Once time is up, it is essentially a PK since stalkers aren't really characters anymore.

The point I was making was it should be undone because the psa because settling with “save him icly” railroads his character to a highly likely PK despite him wishing to take the nlr option; I don’t particularly see the issue with just giving him nlr, is there any reason not too?

 

[Brandon_]

This PK has not happened yet, the avenue to escape is still open for you at any given time, either from an outside force or craft usage of slipping out between defences.

This will take well over a week to fully process and to address the PSA announcement NLR was never going to be an option, he wandered onto the bridge all alone and got ambushed by an entire 10 cop PT team, if he had resisted/tried to s2k and died it would have been a PK on the spot there, the empty canister was used as bait to get people to come and you happen to just be the first *and* only one that showed up

 

[Verräterpackaging]

This PK has not happened yet, the avenue to escape is still open for you at any given time, either from an outside force or craft usage of slipping out between defences.

This will take well over a week to fully process and to address the PSA announcement NLR was never going to be an option, he wandered onto the bridge all alone and got ambushed by an entire 10 cop PT team, if he had resisted/tried to s2k and died it would have been a PK on the spot there, the empty canister was used as bait to get people to come and you happen to just be the first *and* only one that showed up

I was not the only one coming, but I was the closest and fastest to get there, I read the radio.

Additionally, Rebels are not PK when defending, only attacking.

 

[Verräterpackaging]

Additionally, since I am literally in your main base, it is impossible to get out. Synth, OTA and alot of CP plus forcefields? Hard to get by

 

[Brandon_]

Walker was captured the same way, he escaped solo and hobbled his way back to the PD, it's possible. The system is designed to offer you a chance to avoid a definite PK if you had gone Rambo, just with the loss of a limb that helps tell a story. Be creative with your /mes and a staff member and they'll probably help you, but you'll most certainly be killed if found

It would have been a PK had you raised and shot due to acting as a Rambo+Fear RP, there was literally no way you would have survived 10 cops pointing their guns at you.

 

[Subeh]

Additionally, since I am literally in your main base, it is impossible to get out. Synth, OTA and alot of CP plus forcefields? Hard to get by

it's hilarious how wrong you actually are

 

[Brandon_]

It's the whole reason why we apply the "free roam" aspect to biotics/stalker candidates, so they can poke around and find a way out and not be locked in a 2x2 cell all day staring at the wall until /charban

Yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense ic wise to allow them to walk around but I like the system, it doesn't take away from the cops/ota effort in capturing you (giving you a limp for the rest of your life should you escape) and it doesn't end your char in a death screen without a chance to avoid it

 

[Rod]

As someone who has escaped with a stalkerified prisoner just recently, I find my input relevant:

1. It is DEFINITELY possible to escape, and VERY simple if you put thought into it
2. To serve as precedent, I was specifically asked by the units capturing me whether I wanted an NLR or a stalkerification.

 

[Verräterpackaging]

As someone who has escaped with a stalkerified prisoner just recently, I find my input relevant:

1. It is DEFINITELY possible to escape, and VERY simple if you put thought into it
2. To serve as precedent, I was specifically asked by the units capturing me whether I wanted an NLR or a stalkerification.

I wasn't asked

 

[avralwobniar]

He voluntarily surrendered to us and did not say anything in LOOC indicating he would've rather have been NLR'd.

I will say, there is time for your character to ICly escape from captivity, so it isn't a complete death sentence for you

The rule states that you are supposed to ask them. Even if someone surrenders, you should still do the curteous thing and ask what they intend to do, following the rule as written

 

[Ron]

The rule states that you are supposed to ask them. Even if someone surrenders, you should still do the curteous thing and ask what they intend to do, following the rule as written

I don't know what rules you're reading, but the real ones are https://nebulous.cloud/threads/server-ruleset.58718/

 

[avralwobniar]

I don't know what rules you're reading, but the real ones are https://nebulous.cloud/threads/server-ruleset.58718/

As a part of that faction, you're also required to abide by what's posted in the PSA thread

https://nebulous.cloud/threads/combine-psa-thread.58729/#post-1418074

other players have given them the option to NLR, as previously said on the thread. you're just making yourself look really silly for being so adamant about PKing someone that decided not to mindlessly deathmatch you for once, on a roleplay server

that's my last post because im not trying to have jaggles selectively ban me again

 

[Señor Jaggles]

As a part of that faction, you're also required to abide by what's posted in the PSA thread
https://nebulous.cloud/threads/combine-psa-thread.58729/#post-1418074
other players have given them the option to NLR, as previously said on the thread. you're just making yourself look really silly for being so adamant about PKing someone that decided not to mindlessly deathmatch you for once, on a roleplay server

Going by the PSA itself and the way of operating for the Combine so far this seems to be the right choice. Only PK those who don't abide by Fear RP (as always?) and the rest don't get "punished" for abiding to the situation and the logic of it.

I do agree that, however, PK has not happened yet. It's a bit hard to judge this if no death has actually happened. Being captured has its consequences much as going out alone, but it doesn't mean you'll be (OOCly) PKed if it's deemed unjust/it doesn't abide by PK criteria/Combine PSA.

But I'm a bit tipsy right now still my judgement may be clouded.

that's my last post because im not trying to have jaggles selectively ban me again

You're a very funny guy that likes to poke buttons instead of being smart about it but you're not malicious. Or I want to believe you're not. I hoped you wouldn't take it personally when you're muted or banned (either by me or any other moderator) for pushing the limits one time after another, it's merely bound to happen as it's a consequential result of your actions.

You made a good constructive point here, don't ruin it by tossing a snarky remark mate.

Regarding rules I will be talking to sky and numbers to make sure everything is as coherent as possible, as I understand how the current PK criteria and the PSA for the Combine may hold contradictions.