Resolved Leonid Rozhkov

Discussion in 'Accepted/Denied Appeals' started by Mesa, Mar 19, 2020.

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  1. Mesa

    Mesa Molecule

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    Steam Name: grab the moon
    Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:98800015
    Server: WW3
    Character Name: SSdr. Leonid Rozhkov
    Member of Staff Who Banned Your Character: Unsure

    What Led To Your Character's Death?:
    Executed
    Why Should Your Character Be Unbanned?: There was no IC authorisation/order given for me to be killed, @aeromantis did it out of his own accord. I don't believe the OOC grounds were all too valid either, but I'm unsure as to how they function just yet.

    In short, I was detained by aeromantis' Warrant Officer and he was instructed to give me a beating by the Major. The WO gets an SSdr to hit me twice in two separate /me's, then I retaliate and headbutt the soldier once as part of my characters nature. The Warrant Officer goes on to kick and hit me with his rifle for another five or so /me's, to which I offer no resistance. After he talks to the other soldier for a minute or so he orders him to shoot me in the head and requests a PK. I wouldn't have an issue with this and debated whether or not to make an appeal, but there was no IC instruction or authorisation given. Additionally, the situation that resulted in me being detained arose because of a bug with the simfphys vehicles and a staff member misjudging what had happened. @swexs thought that the BRDM was driven off a cliff into the water and as a result did a /event for the engine being waterlogged, whereas the vehicle had entered the water from a drop of around two feet and didn't go under the water. In addition, the simfphys controls for the amphibious vehicles are very buggy and essentially impossible to control, so the BRDM could only go where the water took it.

    I've developed my character well and had some great interactions with the people on-base. It feels a bit menial to lose it over a situation like this.

    Date Of Occurrence: 19/03/2020
    Evidence: I didn't take any screenshots and my console is full of sprite errors, but if you spawn a brdm in the water and try to drive you'll see where I'm coming from.
    Other Players Involved: @Civil Protection as the SSdr in the cell.
    Any Other Details: N/A
     
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  2. swexs

    swexs
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    To be clear, the events aimed towards the APC were done by @east - adding onto that, other players reported of an APC (amphibious) speeding off the cliff into the water.
    Though with that being said, I've let you off with a talk and that was about it, hoping that in the future things would've been kept more realistic, so to speak. The situation carried itself IC, as I personally don't like admin intervention into roleplay situations so we let it run IC with East doing the local events scenarios concerning the APC, hoping it would create more interesting things. But then you were assaulted by people, resulting in the death of a soviet soldier. I think your death also revolved around that, not sure. I'll allow the involved parties to give their input in order to have a more clear painting. I've just stated my point of view.
    It was the result of an IC scenario, that's all I can say for sure. It would have happened regardless of whether we did those events or not. The people that assaulted you were players, it wasn't a planned event scenario orchestrated by administrators. It was your choice, as the driver, stepping into the water.

    I'll wait for the other involved parties to respond before jumping to a conclusion, just to clear things up for all of us.
     
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  3. '77 East

    '77 East Rictal-Approved
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    Wasn't Swexs, it was me.

    I was going off what I was told by three people (including @Numbers) and from finding the BDRM right next to the cliffside.
     
  4. Civil Protection

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    I will admit, all the BRDM situation was fucked and when we got attacked, it got worse since you didn't even consult @aeromantis 's WO before diving all of us into the sea. As @Hiros 's poor char got yeeted by the insurgents, obviously, we looked for a sin sheep and you were the perfect fit to yell and scream at however your responses against the @aeromantis did shit only worse for you, he got really pissed and I just followed him in the process.

    Anyways, moving on. We managed to successfully return back to HQ, leaving our dead comrade back in the cold sea. We had to get you out by force but you kept disobeying WO's orders after many attempts from @aeromantis I just smacked your head with my AK's butt and moved you to holding cells.

    We, of course, took this matter at hand to @char 's major, explaining to him what happened and how we should deal with you. He basically told us to beat the shit out of you as your punishment, so we were going to do so. We did not have the idea of killing you at all until you head bumped my char with your helmet on. After you keep arguing with WO, I slide to him basically tell him that we should kill you because of your overall attitude was dangerous and my char thought ''this you have nothing to lose so this guy will kill us, sooner or later'' so I share my idea with the warrant officer, resulting with him giving me a green light to blast you off and thus I do so.

    Honestly speaking, it is too late for a full void because it will be unfair to those guys who managed to kill the hiros's char and got away with his heavy weapon but yeah, I'll say again, situation was kinda fucked up. I have no clue about what was supposed to happen with our BRDM on the sea but I am sure @swexs and @'77 East can give out their side of the story as they handled all of the local events.
     
  5. Mesa

    Mesa Molecule

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    I intended to keep it as realistic as possible when entering the water. We entered by the dockhouse, I set up on the bank and gradually set it in at just a few km/h. It wasn't driven off a cliff and certainly not at speed by any means.
     
  6. char

    char The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Chardust
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    I gave auths for it and left it to the discretion of @aeromantis 's char. His anger would be understandable given the incident with the APC lead to the death of a soldier, loss of equipment and near the death of the whole squad.
     
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  7. Numbers

    Numbers ok
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    even after you got the apc working, why did you drive it through a river? was that just the bug you referred to earlier? because it stopped moving mid rp. is moving in random directions a byproduct of trying to move the apc regularly in water?
     
  8. Mesa

    Mesa Molecule

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    He asked us where we wanted to go, we were driving about aimlessly around the dockhouse and it was an IC matter. I don't know about you, but it was my character trying to lighten the mood, spark up some laughter and pull a little prank on the guys in the back as they didn't have the knowledge it was amphibious. There was no sinister OOC intention involved. Once in the water I was simply going to drive to the slope a hundred or so yards away and mount back up. It turns out the simfphys amphibious vehicles don't function correctly in water and I had no control over the vehicle beyond trying to stop it spinning.

    Like I said, I draw a fine line between IC and OOC. What my character does is done tailored to his personality, not mine. With aeromantis' character shouting and insulting my character the whole way back, I insulted him back once.

    We returned to base and aeromantis aimed his rifle at me while I was still in the drivers seat. At my confusion, and after he told me twice, I got out. He aimed his rifle at me outside the vehicle, to which I shouted something to the Sergeant in the background. I protested after he told me to get to the ground, trying to speak to the Sergeant, to which you hit me from behind.

    You punched and kicked me in the stomach, then tried to grab my head, to which you got headbutted. After this, aeromantis proceeded to hit me in the face and stomach with his rifle, then uppercut me with no resistance whatsoever, because I knew that if I resisted anymore I'd likely get shot. I don't know why you would expect a battle-hardened soldier to let himself be beaten black and blue, particularly when he holds a disdain to the people doing it, but like I keep saying - I keep it in character and don't let out of character motivators come into it. I was responding to how I think any human would respond.

    Like I say, it's all in character for me. There was no ooc motivation seeping into what happened
    Merged:
    when you get it in the water it's out of your control, it spins uncontrollably and the controls become inverted at random intervals. forwards becomes backwards and vice versa all while the car is spinning around. the car physically wouldn't drive to where I wanted it to go, so we ended up having to go with wherever it took us. It stopped mid-stream because east thought it was driven off a cliff at speed and as a result would be waterlogged, which led to the whole situation
     
  9. Civil Protection

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    No, honestly, I thank you for that, I had no impressions that you acted on OOC motivations, trust me. It is well appreciated, to answer your points.

    Yeah, but your jokes only made things bad, even worse for you and if only you asked for permission before diving into the sea, we would not be having this conversation right now.

    I agree, you did draw a fine line and its well appreciated by me but you are insulting a higher officer, the final rank within the NCO.

    You disobeyed his direct order, he asked you a few times and yet you still didn't do it so I just smacked you.

    When we told major about the situation, he told us to beat the living out of you as your punishment and thus @aeromantis told me to do it, in the cell. So, I did or attempted to do so until you broke my char's nose with your head bump.

    Look, I can empathize with you here, you reacted exactly the way your char would react into the situations that occurred and yet you died because of those reactions, not due to any OOC related issue. @aeromantis will most likely post his behalf soon when he comes back
     
  10. Mesa

    Mesa Molecule

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    the whole thing was done with the anticipation that the vehicle would work fine, which it would ICly. It was because of the whole jolty controls and 'driving off the cliff' premise that caused us to get into that situation in the first place, which is one of my points. If the vehicle worked OOCly my intention was to drive up on the beach, or drive up onto the slope a hundred yards from where we entered.

    My character has always held a vendetta towards aeromantis' character after an argument they had earlier on in the week. The insults spawned from a personal quarrel. Your point still stands, however, but personally I would find the harsh beating you and he gave my character sufficient enough for insulting him.

    It is an order, yes, and I was going to comply with whatever he was about to do - but I was midway through talking with the Sergeant who came to investigate when you knocked me out.

    Which is why I debated whether or not to make this appeal in the first place. It's all in-character after all, but the events that led to the APC being attacked and subsequently the soldier being killed were a result of misinformation and an addon not functioning properly. If we never got attacked, my character wouldn't have died.
     
  11. aeromantis

    aeromantis senior trash

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    The Major left it in my hands, he told me it'd best not to kill him, and my character agreed that it probably would be detrimental. However, due to your characters attitude, and the events in the river which were explained prior, he decided that your continued service in the company would put himself, and his comrades at risk. I'm acting according to my character here, if you read his bio, you'll see that he takes the lives of his men seriously, and with your character hurling insults, and whatever else at mine, it only enraged him further.
    I gave a choice of Moscow or base, at no point did I say go where you want. Then you reminded me that I'd wanted to go to dockhouse prior, so I agreed.

    The whole situation from an IC point of view is valid imho, however the vehicle functioning (or not functioning for that matter) is the point of contention in my view.
     
  12. Mesa

    Mesa Molecule

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    There isn't much to contend with here, it's an entirely IC matter. My only argument is that I find it slightly irregular to consider someone who defends himself against a brutal beating unfit and a danger to his comrades. Personally I'd consider that a positive, but our characters are different.

    You instructed us to go to the the castle, then yelena, the farmhouse, then asked us where we wanted to go. I replied with the dockhouse, to which you agreed. When you got back into the APC after raiding the dockhouse, you didn't give an instruction to go anywhere. If you did, I'd have followed it.

    I think everything's been said. Up to the appeal managers
     
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  13. Hiros

    Hiros Who ?

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    I mean, there are two things to consider, the driving was retarded AF and I am pretty sure @Mesa or someone asked in LOOC if we can be moved away. I think that request was ignored so we proceeded to go away. Then we somehow got stuck and suddenly engine stopped in /event.
    Merged:
    Like, What I am trying to say is that we wouldn't get stuck in there I think we got Oocly blocked in that area or something because we couldn't move and then the RP happened so we kind of went with the flow
     
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  14. Mesa

    Mesa Molecule

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    yeah, this is my main point

    go into the water, pull a little joke on our patrol of enlistedmen with the fact that the car's amphibious, drive up on the shore and return to base was the plan. It was the unexpected and uncontrollable OOC factors that led to the situation resulting in my characters death
     
  15. '77 East

    '77 East Rictal-Approved
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    I got told in !help by someone to physgun them along the river, but then @swexs told me that they should be warned for the vehicle stunting.

    So, I came up with the engine breakdown as a compromise. Never expected people to show up and start pelting the vehicle with food lol.
     
  16. Mesa

    Mesa Molecule

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    aye that was me, I made a !help a few seconds after we got into the water once I realised just how uncontrollable the thing was. the vehicle definitely wasn't stunted in, everyone involved can testify that
     
  17. Hiros

    Hiros Who ?

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    I mean, I think if the controls weren't bugged and us spinning around like total retards I think we would've prevented the entire eh attack lmao. Like you can't control it at all afaik. We RP'd sliding into the water because BRDM can swim but controls are just bugged so you can't go forward or backward. Plus we got stuck in that area due to some sort of OOC problem.
     
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  18. '77 East

    '77 East Rictal-Approved
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    at this point given what happened with the situation regarding the insurgents I don't think the situation itself should be voided, Rozhov isn't the only dead man here and it's already had severe repercussions.

    the specifics of if Rozhkov is liable for the incident but wasn't executed (partial void), was executed (PK sticks), or simply wasn't the driver (NLR) in the case is up to the appropriate staff members.
     
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  19. swexs

    swexs
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    I'm not too much convinced about this PK, perhaps it would be just me but voiding the whole situation would just be plain bullshit and ruin the RP of all the parties involved (not just the Soviets were involved in it), not to mention that we would have to refund literally all the parts involved if that were to happen.
    Though I think that @Mesa death was a bit too much over the top, I acknowledge the fact that he fought back, but I still think it didn't deem an execution, at least not under these circumstances - given that the soldier was NLR'd - it wouldn't just be fair. Keeping on beating him, even to unconsciousness, would've just served him just fine and perhaps put him back to his place, I wouldn't know, that's his character.
    Anyways, I'm willing to do a partial void, he will still be held responsible for that as it was a result of an IC choice, I don't like too many OOC factors stepping in and making things easy for everyone, that's not how it is supposed to be, not everything can go as planned.
    Unless you have any other relevant things to add, I guess the situation can count as resolved.
     
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