Accepted Marcus Strassmann Pk Appeal

Discussion in 'Accepted/Denied Appeals' started by FreeSpy443, May 5, 2020.

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  1. FreeSpy443

    FreeSpy443 Quark

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    Steam Name: FreeSpy443
    Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:105184450
    Server: WW3
    Character Name: Marcus Strassmann
    Member of Staff Who Banned Your Character: Don't know exactly. I am not gonna start throwing shade around for it.

    What Led To Your Character's Death?:
    The Character death was basically a course of downhill actions and events that led to execution on a hill. The full story will be told in the next section to facilitate the reasoning behind everything and to show why this is not right. I have gotten a lot of opinions on this, and different perspectives on the matter.

    Why Should Your Character Be Unbanned?: I am going to be starting off with the event and announcement of the rave. The rave was in a known location fires, as per the last rave, so I go there without firefighter clothing to see if there was a fire there for a response.

    Bada bing bada bum, Medium fire. I return to my shop without incident to radio the fire for the brigade (@Toedeli ) to wake up for a response, but I come to find out that, well, there's a response underway already, so I drive back to the Monastery to grab a gun. The reasoning behind this is for self-defense. I wanted to defend myself in case worst came to worst, and had the gun concealed to not cause defamation or get us reported to the MfS.

    I arrive on the scene, leaving my truck above so I can respond on foot. I arrive, grab a hose and get to work on one side of the fire while Patrick deals with the other. Fire dealt with on my end, trying to get a bugged fire, when I see Patrick on the ground with a mob around him (Keep in mind, we are not liked as a group because we put out their fires when they set some.)

    I, of course, rush to see what's happening to see Patrick on the ground absolutely panicked and has his mask removed by force. This is the escalation from Arne and the other people into assault, and possible harm, so I grab my M9, keeping it visible but lowered to try and make sure everyone backs off.

    Everyone does, except one person. Arne. I raise my M9 (Granted, he probably did not see it pointed considering his PoV), and then order him away, when he drugs Patrick and shushes me. Keep in mind, this is another escalation on my end as it could've been any pill (Cyanide, paracetamol. I was also told by different people different things, such as 'Relax, we're giving him Ibuprofen!'). I tried to calm the situation down, and then Manny comes out with an AK, raising it. I enter FearRP mode, and drop my pistol and follow orders when told (He did order me to drop it, consider it mugging.)

    Arne tells me to pass the pistol over, I do so, and then explain to Manny what is going on with everything and that Patrick was forcefully drugged, and if I can have my pistol back and go on my way. I wanted to retreat with Patrick and get that MDMA flushed if at all possible.

    Arne tells me to come inside to discuss this all, but I choose not to (I am not being threatened by anyone by this point.) because of Arne's reputation. From what I was told IC, they are a gang of muggers. I am carrying 1k Marks at this point, and choose not to as the situation was cooled down. I try and recuperate the pistol, but I basically gave up at that point.

    I decided to take Patrick out of there as Arne and Manny go inside. Jurgen and another person (Red Cross) show up, and I hand Patrick over for safekeeping. I intended to leave with the firetruck, and cool down at the Fire station to plan my next move. Arne and Manny come up from the back, with Manny remaining a little back, out of range. I then am asked to follow (Arne has an AK, not raised by this point.) them, but choose not so, which I am met with a rifle to our faces, then an order to follow. I do so and comply.

    I was then taken up the hill, told to go on my knees and shot in an execution-style manner, by Arne with one round, and then Char banned, to which I just typed quit in the console and fucked off.


    Now, onto the reason I want this character unbanned: I was killed for self-defense while they escalated assault, and then had my pistol removed. I feel as if this is fair enough as is, and find the PK total bullshit on my end. We put out arson, then my teammate gets drugged and I try to stop that assault, to which I am met with robbing of my pistol. While yes, I did defend my friend by raising a gun, I had that weapon removed by security and then attempted to leave peacefully, and did not get the gun back, which again, is fair, but a PK? A PK for self-defense? I may be biased about this, but I have been assured by people that this is bullshit, and I stand by that opinion.

    Date Of Occurrence: 1-2 hours ago.
    Evidence: N/A
    Other Players Involved: Martyr (Don't know forum tag, Arne If that helps in identifying). @Toedeli (Patrick)
    Any Other Details: I had taken time to talk to others and see opinions on this to make sure I did not make a biased appeal.
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
  2. '77 East

    '77 East Rictal-Approved
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  3. JOHNNY.HOMICIDE_33

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    I was the proxy 'bouncer' for the party. I was doing shit in the temple with somebody else when I heard yelling and noticed a firefighter pointing a gun at the crowd. I marched up and told him to stop and w/e, he lowered his gun and chat was going 10 miles per hour since I didn't really know what to do. I saw a command from mart's character to tell him to drop the gun so I told him to drop the gun. I was going to pick it up myself and hand it over a bit later but mart picked it up for himself. I did attempt to get the gun back from mart but he refused, probably because you aimed a gun at him for whatever reason. I didn't want to hurt mart since he is my friend so I sort of just stood there idly.
    However, I didn't stop him from killing you. He definitely wanted to kill you and I just told him straight up to do it right there since I believe he wanted to lead you into the temple.
    He got his rifle and blasted you.

    It's up to mart to whatever he has to say. I basically wasn't involved too much since I didn't really know what the fuck was going on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Northgate

    Northgate Firetruck
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    Patrick Majerus here to give my side of the story,

    An /event was done where smoke was visible from afar, near the temple. I responded with the firetruck immediately, rushing to the scene. Once I arrived, I saw a spread out fire, probably from a car that was burning. I put out the first bit of fire, but since I was alone at first an /event was done that I couldn't put out the blaze by myself which of course made sense. I had no issue with that, and to avoid putting it out again roleplayed just spraying over the fire to cool it down.

    The vehicle eventually exploded, and I roleplayed that I was thrown back against a rock and knocked out unconscious. Originally, I hoped for some cool MedicalRP but I think since everyone was drugged ICly they either didn't notice or simply didn't care. Soon though, I was brought forward by them and they wanted to put a MDMA pill in my mouth for no apparent reason, so they did a /me of removing my gasmask. At this time, I decided to wake Patrick up and slowly made him squint his eyes but making it clear that he is still barely conscious and a pill could easily be put in his mouth.

    At this point, Marcus Strassman turned up and raised his M9 - he was coming to help with the fire but with that situation coming up he took out his pistol. This caused some panic, and an escalation about to happen. During this, I remember that Arne slipped a pill in my mouth still, someone or he said it was Ibuprofen. They tried to explain that I went to the rave, but Marcus wasn't buying it. He continued telling them to leave me alone and really became angry when they slipped that pill in my mouth. Patrick had become more conscious then, and of course was tripping out.

    The situation continued escalating from there on, with both sides pretty pissed at eachother. I think Manny aimed his rifle at Marcus, and told him to drop his gun which he eventually did. Arne or Manny took the gun and Marcus explained he really just wanted to get me out of there but wanted his pistol back with ammo, as it was important to him. At that point I start recalling less, since I focused on roleplaying tripping out.

    We eventually walked back to the firetruck though, and finally were on our way. By this point, Jürgen came around with someone (think it was Amélie and maybe someone else). Arne came back with Manny I think, and basically told Marcus again to follow them. He refused, and then Arne proceeded to pull a Kalschnikov on him and ordered him to follow. Marcus now did, and they went a bit further up. Moments later, shots were fired and Marcus' life was ended. Once we got there, Arne explained to us he shot him in self-defense but none of us were buying that either. Arne ran away, and we were left grieving over the loss os a friend.
    That's my side of the story, I hope I was able to keep it as clear and neutral as possible.


    I'd personally appreciate an unPK, as I personally believe the entire reason for him being killed is a bit sketchy as a whole. While he did threaten them, he complied with what they said and was really only there to get Patrick out which was his only condition. He also asked for his pistol back since he explained it was from a fallen friend, with ammo.

    Other people who could perhaps give a statement regarding his death would be:
    @Poopship McGee (Benedikt Ziegler, witnessed it go down)
    @Laura and @UkuP (Amélie and Jürgen respectively, arrived to pick up Patrick)
    @Clokr (helped Patrick into the ambulance and witnessed the situation I think)

    I'll be available for any other questions.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. Laura

    Laura Nucleus

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    I arrived late with Malach, One of the firefighters after I dropped of Jurgen & Clokr's character to the scene.
    I didn't hear about the death of Marcus until IC from Jurgen after I arrived at the scene.
    I spoke to Freespy on the side as he left the server, in clear frustration at the PK.
    Toedeli took words right out of my mouth. I agree that the whole killing was sketchy as a whole. A lot of PK's coming from mert the last two days.
    Got not really anything to say outside of that as I wasn't at the rave.
    Still think NLR would have been better in place, don't think Mert's char really reacted realistically in the term of fearRP at having a gun pointed at him. But, again I wasn't there. Maybe some of the ravers pulled a gun to protect Mert? Don't know. I just wanted to point it out as I haven't really heard about how mert reacted IC to Freespy's character pulling a gun at him? I think Freespy had every right and sense to pull a gun on a bunch of druggie ravers. As they were basically drugging one of his closest friends after he got knocked unconscious by the car blast.
     
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  6. Clokr

    Clokr Nucleus

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    Sadly I’m not really able to give much insight into this, at all really. But I’ll give what I can.

    After creating my new char, I met up with Amelie and Jurgen. Tried to start RP but we all went down to where we heard the explosion at the temple. Upon arriving we tried to look for any wounded, and ran into a drugged Patrick and sober Marcus. I kept an eye on Patrick as Aran ushered Marcus away at gun point, me and Patrick chatted it up, and a gunshot was heard. We ran up to see a dead Marcus and Aran with a raised weapon. Which he quickly just fucking booked it. And then on it was just RP between us all.

    Personally, if you ask me. I don’t really think a PK was needed. Because to me everything was in order and all rules were followed on freespy’s part. But that’s just me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. Northgate

    Northgate Firetruck
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    I'm gonna add, I don't think mert is doing this maliciously as a way to farm PKs. I think his character, Arne, is just supposed to be a local drug dealer and gangster pretty much. By sketchy I mean the situation went from just another fire to murder. I believe (and hope) there was no OOC motivation here.

    I personally still think that Marcus should be unPKd and NLR'd. He should have been given a beating and Arne should have kept the gun instead of killing a willingly unarmed firefighter.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. mert

    mert Molecule

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    Marcus pulled a gun on Arne after Arne and the ravers decided to give Patrick some happy pills because this is a party after all. You definitely could have handled it better. Now since you were so quick to pull a gun on Arne, he wanted to square things up with Marcus in private without a crowd listening in, and potentially earn some business contacts. Despite the fact that Marcus was surrounded by armed men, and one that was increasingly demanding him to follow. He just decided it would be a great idea to demand his gun back with the ammo.

    Now heres the deal: You pulled a gun on a drug dealer on his territory. You can't really expect to walk away without atleast having a stern talk about it? Well, you thought so this bring us to the next point.

    Arne then went over to the temple and waited for Marcus to come. He decided to go away. Since Marcus refused to cooperate, and was pretty much hostile to me. Arneguessed that he would probably snitch Arne out to the MfS or the Soviets. Perhaps Marcus would have returned with a bigger gun to shoot Arne? The way Marcus acted didn't help sway Arne that he wasn't gonna do anything. It resulted in Arne being forced to get a gun, and shoot you. I believed I asked you like 5 or 6 times to come along now, but of course you refused.

    So let's sum it up: You pulled a gun on me after I gave your friend some happy pills on my turf, thus violating the NAP. I had your gun confiscated, and I wanted to talk to you since you don't pull out a gun on someone and leave like it's nothing. You decided to act cool and demand the gun back with the ammo. In fear that you would shoot Arne, snitch, or lynch Arne he decided to shoot you.

    Regarding the gun if it becomes an issue. I had no intention of mugging him, and the reason he lost his gun is because of the fact he pulled it out on me. I can hardly call this a mug, and should the gun become an issue I'm fine with getting rid of it.

    TL;DR Marcus pulls a gun on narcos in their turf and refuses to cooperate with them. Gets shot.
     
  9. UkuP

    UkuP Proton

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    I will give the little input I can.
    Pretty much the same. I did not see how or when Marcus was stripped of his weapons, but once on our arrival as we were trying to leave, Marcus asked back his gear. Arne pulled him aside at gunpoint and seconds later we heard shots. We went to investigate and Marcus was dead.
    I understand that pulling a gun out on armed drugs is a breach of fearRP. But as you pointed gun at him he was complying.
    If we start PKing every person for reasons like these...simply assumptions, that the person MIGHT snitch on me or he MIGHT come back and shoot me we could PK half the server... hell the entire server.
    I heard rumors that Arne and his gang have mugged civilians. Does that give me reason to kill you off just in case, before you mug me? I wouldn't and I think most people agree with me that it would be kinda stupid and kills also a lot of opportunities for RP. If you are known drug dealer you are going to be snitched on eventually. I personally think such rivalry or beef between persons is kind of fun in RP matter.
    All in all I think NLR would've been fair, so as if Marcus was never there.
     
  10. mert

    mert Molecule

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    I believe there's a difference between Hans Hansen going "Hey kid.....those people over there? They eat people alive......watch out....." And Jarle Kruger pointing a gun on you, thus making a direct threat on your life and then trying to fuck off after you try to confront him about it. You don't know what Jarle is gonna do, but you know he's fucking pissed at you, and would probably try to make your life hell.

    I want to make it clear that I did not want to PK him, and I gave him several chances to comply and follow me so we could talk this out in private. He refused, demanded his gun back and then got shot when trying to leave the area.

    Do you think you would walk out alive from a favela if you pointed a gun at some criminal there, and then demand? And then refusing to follow the criminals demands or orders? I'm pretty sure you end up on Liveleaks my good man.
     
    #10 mert, May 6, 2020
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
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  11. swexs

    swexs
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    I don't understand why you kept demanding the M9 back - I mean, since you followed their directives that's fine, I think the main situation rotates around the fact that you probably kept demanding it back, which seemed fishy for them. I'll wait for the involved parties to add more input before I give my verdict. I'm not saying that's grounds for a PK, but from what I could gather from this thread the main reason they shot you was for the fact that you kept demanding the firearm back, which in their point of view was a sort of "threat". Correct me if I'm wrong
     
  12. mert

    mert Molecule

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    I shot him because he threatened me with a gun on muh property thus violating the NAP. He refused to talk things out and kept demanding the gun back. When I was waiting for him at the temple he ran off which resulted in the execution.
     
  13. swexs

    swexs
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    Didn't he drop the M9 when you told him to?
     
  14. mert

    mert Molecule

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    He dropped the M9, and I wanted to hash things out with him, which he refused to do.

    I gave him like 5 or 6 chances to talk things out, but he kept demanding the gun back before trying to leave the temple.
     
  15. FreeSpy443

    FreeSpy443 Quark

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    Alright, I'll pull in my thinking process to help you guys understand why I was asking for my gun back and why i left, and why I never followed you to the temple.


    When I pulled the M9 on Arne and the crowd it had been lowered as to try and back the crowd away without further incident and get Patrick out of the area as he was basically rendered unusable in any case scenario. I was in full self defense mode, thinking of who could pose a threat to me and to my friend. Whenever Manny came out, I dropped and complied with his orders, and then discussed it with him so i can get my shit back and go away.

    Now, the pill and insertion.
    My character is no medic and is not one to know different types of pills and I was told different things by different people. For all I know, you could've forcefully inserted Cyanide, Patrick being panicked.

    I was still in a fully self defense mode, attempting to leave so I can just keep Patrick safe, as I had a idiotic firefighter who was jumping into fucking fires. The M9 was maybe a plus, I just wanted to leave by that point. I thought if I went into a private area with you I would've been shot, proven true. My fault here was not announcing that I'm leaving, but my mind never went to that as I was still, well, again in a mindset where I was only inspecting threats and to me you could be a massive threat but you were not an active one to me.
     
  16. mert

    mert Molecule

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    That's fine, but there are other ways to disperse the crowd without going as far as to pull out a gun. You had a fire hose which you could have used instead.

    That doesn't make sense and you know it.

    Theres no evidence or anything to support the fact I would shoot you if you went into a private area with me. The only that has been proven true is that you got shot dead for trying to leave, when told to stay and talk things out first.

    You were acting really fishy, and the fact you left made me think you were gonna return with backup or more weapons.

    From reading this, I believe Strassmanns intense paranoia and inability to solve conflicts caused the whole mess to begin with.
     
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  17. FreeSpy443

    FreeSpy443 Quark

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    Well, it does make sense to not know what pill is being inserted forcefully into a close friend's mouth and people were telling me different things.
    Paranoia comes with these types of situation, and I tried to resolve the situation outside by just getting my gun and then leaving, once again, because I had a high on balls teammate and the situation was sketchy as is and I didn't want to stick because of that. To be fair, that would've been better rp but I had no way IC or OOC of knowing your intentions other than my well 'paranoia' you could call it coming with the defending a friend mentality. While yes, I could've gone to grab a gun my IC intentions were to get Patrick back to the fire station and then discuss things out if at all possible or tend to Patrick tripping balls. Again, you have to see my perspective considering we're being a little hated in the location because we put out the fires you guys set. The M9 was a bonus and at that point, I gave up.
     
  18. swexs

    swexs
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    here's how I see it:
    while I agree with you that the whole gun demanding thing was completely off from @FreeSpy443 's part, on the other hand, you killed him based on assumptions, I mean it's fair to fear for what he could possibly do to you, but with no clear view on his intentions the PK was a bit off, surely you gave him chances to talk things out, but given the situation, he just wanted to leave with Patrick. You could've told him off, keeping the firearm on you (which is allowed, doesn't count as mugging - you're seizing the firearm) if you assumed he was going to use it to shoot you. Both parties in the situation are at fault. @FreeSpy443 kept demanding his scripts back and you guys assumed he was a threat given the fact he didn't state his intentions (which explains the reason why you killed him in the first place).
    There's also another thing I'd like to point out - if people could refrain from throwing shades at others in PK appeals, doesn't do you a favor, just fills the thread with unneeded information.

    Anyways, I'm fine with giving NLR, given the fact he initially complied, although he did not state his intentions, making the whole thing look a bit off, which explains why you just decided to kill him as I said above. @mert and the rest, you can keep the M9, since you seized it from @FreeSpy443 - the whole situation was a mess, it could've been handled better by @FreeSpy443 - given he didn't state his intentions and therefore you guys had no clear view on them, but the PK is invalid since they were just assumptions. Again, I know @FreeSpy443 seemed like a threat since he kept demanding the gun back, but you could've just told him to leave the area after you seized his firearm if he wasn't reacting at all.
    @mert and his group just rolled with the reactions they were given to be fair.
    And to be honest, the whole mess was caused by you, if anything @FreeSpy443 - of course with the reasons I provided above - you acted really vague, not stating your intentions isn't something wise to do when you are being confronted by armed men in their territory, plus the fact that you kept demanding the scripts back just makes it even worse.
    That being said, consider this accepted, but I don't want to see any other situations like this, react with what you're being given when being confronted by armed men instead of acting in a very vague way, and demanding your firearm back several times.

    Case closed. I hope situations like this are not repeated in the future. This was a big mess.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
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