Denied Rework the Scoreboard for Resistance vs Combine.

[Aether]

Suggestion: Make it so that each side can only see their own side on the scoreboard. For instance, civilians, rebels and vortigaunts would be able to see each other on the scoreboard, but not be able to see cops, OTA, etc. For Cops, they'd be able to see themselves, OTA, synths and stalkers. Xenians already can see each other, and same with zombies, so...

Why it would be worth adding: We've just made an edit that makes it so that Elite Transhumans no longer show on the scoreboard. This I assume was done to prevent the Rebels from knowing how many are currently present on the map, but personally, I think we should scale this up.

I'm not concerned about metagaming, but more so the OOC dread and uncertainty that would be instilled onto either side by simply not knowing how many enemies there really are, which would really just increase the immersion and stop either side from being concerned about the actual numbers. I think it'd be a lot more intimidating and make things actually a bit cooler.

Necessary content: Minor code changes made to the scoreboard so that only certain factions can see other factions.

 

[STUCK IN A CAKE]

There's the issue that certain actions require a certain number of people on, you could circumvent this by just adding a counter that says "There are x Combine and x Rebels on"
Without saying who those rebels or combine are. They could be OTA, Vortigaunt, 25's, Bluesuits. Who knows?

 

[Erkor]

i think this would be terrible for inter-player communication and we shouldn't sacrifice that for meta-immersion based on scoreboards

 

[MaXenzie]

if there's 6+ cops online, i dont leave shanty town
if i cant see how many cops are online, I'll never leave shanty town

i don't want to ever risk getting killed

 

[Aether]

There's the issue that certain actions require a certain number of people on, you could circumvent this by just adding a counter that says "There are x Combine and x Rebels on"
Without saying who those rebels or combine are. They could be OTA, Vortigaunt, 25's, Bluesuits. Who knows?

I agree that is an issue, but I'd go with that those actions probably would want to get an admin to okay them anyway, so they should just be able to do a !help and get their answer that way

i think this would be terrible for inter-player communication and we shouldn't sacrifice that for meta-immersion based on scoreboards

I'm not sure how it would affect inter-player communication, you good to elaborate?

if there's 6+ cops online, i dont leave shanty town
if i cant see how many cops are online, I'll never leave shanty town

i don't want to ever risk getting killed

1) you're playing on an iteration that is heavily combat-focused, you should expect to die, you're in a warzone?
2) Even with the above, 90% of interactions are NLR unless you go out of your way to go and try and shoot into the enemy base, so you're virtually fine

 

[MaXenzie]

1) you're playing on an iteration that is heavily combat-focused, you should expect to die, you're in a warzone?

i have no intention of ever engaging in combat :D

 

[Erkor]

I'm not sure how it would affect inter-player communication, you good to elaborate?

People are already completely in the dark in regards to whom they're roleplaying with if they aren't a cop and able to see each other's taglines. If you're roleplaying -- be it as a citizen to a CP officer, or a citizen to another citizen -- you have absolutely no grasp on which of the three [Tall Dark-Haired Male 6'2" Malnourished...] you're talking to.

Allow me to share with you an allegory: You are a citizen player. You have just joined a server. You spawn in the middle of nowhere. You open the scoreboard, and you see ten other citizens on. You could swear the playercount said 20, but okay. You walk around. You see nothing. You see nobody. There are a couple houses. You found the city in rp_apocalypse. You see nobody. There's a great big wall. Interesting! You come close to it, and a camera locks on to you. You take a look around, assuming not much is happening, before you get doinked in the back of the head as you're looking towards the xen fauna. The cause of death: a completely invisible cop.

I would not be scared. I would be pissed off. No roleplay has occurred. I have just been deathmatched for walking around the map.
-------------
On previous iterations of nebulous's HL2RP (most noticeable in my memory is the first? helix iteration around 2018-2019 if I recall correctly) this was so, so much worse. Here's a direct example because I've experienced this specific issue four times:

I log on the server. For a change of scenery, I decide to make a citizen, because I've gotten sick of the rigamarole of copRP wherein nothing happens because people are afraid of character development in that faction. I exit the spawn.

Nothing. Nobody. No players. No cops. No rebels. No citizens. Why? Everyone is in the outlands. I don't know how to get to the outlands. I don't want to go to the outlands. I want to be a normal person. I cannot find roleplay. I stop playing my citizen.

Now imagine how absolutely bonkers stupid this would be if you were online on a cop character and, in spite of seeing 20 people online on the server list, you open the scoreboard and only see yourself?!

Besides the fact that I would feel like I gaslit myself into joining an empty servier, I would just straight up disconnect considering that I know from that point onwards that I will simply not be getting any roleplay to begin with. Even if I were to ask someone, I don't know who the hell's there. I'd have to make a citizen character to find out and -- Oops! Is that metagaming now? Oh, no!

I cannot in any capacity support an idea that seeks to make the environment more cryptic than it already is.

 

[Deleted member 374]

suggestion: remove the scoreboard

 

[Cindy]

Erkor pretty much already said what was on my mind when I read this suggestion.

This is a genuinely terrible idea.

 

[Aether]

People are already completely in the dark in regards to whom they're roleplaying with if they aren't a cop and able to see each other's taglines. If you're roleplaying -- be it as a citizen to a CP officer, or a citizen to another citizen -- you have absolutely no grasp on which of the three [Tall Dark-Haired Male 6'2" Malnourished...] you're talking to.

Allow me to share with you an allegory: You are a citizen player. You have just joined a server. You spawn in the middle of nowhere. You open the scoreboard, and you see ten other citizens on. You could swear the playercount said 20, but okay. You walk around. You see nothing. You see nobody. There are a couple houses. You found the city in rp_apocalypse. You see nobody. There's a great big wall. Interesting! You come close to it, and a camera locks on to you. You take a look around, assuming not much is happening, before you get doinked in the back of the head as you're looking towards the xen fauna. The cause of death: a completely invisible cop.

I would not be scared. I would be pissed off. No roleplay has occurred. I have just been deathmatched for walking around the map.
-------------
On previous iterations of nebulous's HL2RP (most noticeable in my memory is the first? helix iteration around 2018-2019 if I recall correctly) this was so, so much worse. Here's a direct example because I've experienced this specific issue four times:

I log on the server. For a change of scenery, I decide to make a citizen, because I've gotten sick of the rigamarole of copRP wherein nothing happens because people are afraid of character development in that faction. I exit the spawn.

Nothing. Nobody. No players. No cops. No rebels. No citizens. Why? Everyone is in the outlands. I don't know how to get to the outlands. I don't want to go to the outlands. I want to be a normal person. I cannot find roleplay. I stop playing my citizen.

Now imagine how absolutely bonkers stupid this would be if you were online on a cop character and, in spite of seeing 20 people online on the server list, you open the scoreboard and only see yourself?!

Besides the fact that I would feel like I gaslit myself into joining an empty servier, I would just straight up disconnect considering that I know from that point onwards that I will simply not be getting any roleplay to begin with. Even if I were to ask someone, I don't know who the hell's there. I'd have to make a citizen character to find out and -- Oops! Is that metagaming now? Oh, no!

I cannot in any capacity support an idea that seeks to make the environment more cryptic than it already is.

I think we have different views on this matter, because most of what you said there sounds fine to me, but fair enough.

 

[Cindy]

I think we have different views on this matter, because most of what you said there sounds fine to me, but fair enough.

Absolutely bewildered at how you could believe those are good things. What?

I cannot see how this approach to a roleplay server is anything but absolutely counterproductive. I don't really know you all too well and I'm not looking to start slinging insults because we disagree on something, but this truly feels like the kind of thing that someone who is completely oblivious to how a roleplay server works would suggest. I can't even begin to dissect how you see this as "fine" either, because honestly your OP didn't really give much to offer on your rationale besides some vague intention of sowing paranoia (which really just feels like those old archaic Clockwork server rules on enforcing fear roleplay).

So I'm just kind of left scratching my head trying to figure out how you think this will play out if it were to be hypothetically actualized.

 

[Deleted member 374]

Absolutely bewildered at how you could believe those are good things. What?

I cannot how this approach to a roleplay server is anything but absolutely counterproductive. I don't really know you all too well and I'm not looking to start slinging insults because we disagree on something, but this truly feels like the kind of thing that someone who is completely oblivious to how a roleplay server works would suggest. I can't even begin to dissect how you see this as "fine" either because honestly your OP didn't really give much to offer on your rationale besides some vague intention of sowing paranoia (which really just feels like those old archaic Clockwork server rules on enforcing fear roleplay).

we call these "aetherisms"

 

[Aether]

Absolutely bewildered at how you could believe those are good things. What?

I'll explain then;

I cannot see how this approach to a roleplay server is anything but absolutely counterproductive.

Having less OOC information immerses me more. It's the reason my chat has no LOOC, connects/disconnects by default. By continuing this for the Scoreboard, I'd be more immersed and wouldn't know how many people I'm possibly fighting at a given time. You could say "why open the scoreboard" but I have to scroll past the combine factions to find vortigaunts.

I can't even begin to dissect how you see this as "fine" either, because honestly your OP didn't really give much to offer on your rationale besides some vague intention of sowing paranoia

I don't think it was vague, the intention is clear - to create actual fear and mystery by allowing you only to see the people on your side. It'd also help with metagaming, but that's honestly just a side point.

suggestion: remove the scoreboard

You might've been joking, but this is also a viable alternative imo.

 

[MaXenzie]

I'll explain then;


Having less OOC information immerses me more. It's the reason my chat has no LOOC, connects/disconnects by default. By continuing this for the Scoreboard, I'd be more immersed and wouldn't know how many people I'm possibly fighting at a given time. You could say "why open the scoreboard" but I have to scroll past the combine factions to find vortigaunts.

I don't think it was vague, the intention is clear - to create actual fear and mystery by allowing you only to see the people on your side. It'd also help with metagaming, but that's honestly just a side point.


You might've been joking, but this is also a viable alternative imo.

but it wouldnt create fear

it'd create annoyance

anyone who did feel fear wouldn't interact with the game as a result of it, like me
everyone else would just be fucked off that they cant see half the people on the server

 

[Deleted member 374]

You might've been joking, but this is also a viable alternative imo.

nah man, i say it should be removed entirely, or at least refactored so that it shows players online as opposed to specific chars

 

[Aether]

nah man, i say it should be removed entirely, or at least refactored so that it shows players online as opposed to specific chars

I'd actually be okay with that, like the steam one but actually in game.

 

[Rabid]

I've seen this done before and it tends to lead to frustration and confusion tbh.

In a setting like this there's no real advantage for people to peek at the scoreboard imo.

 

[Aether]

In a setting like this there's no real advantage for people to peek at the scoreboard imo.

My thinking is, beyond the fear and uncertainty it'd create, you can just apply the same logic for why stuff like the OTA Elites were just removed, or why we don't show synths or other whitelists y'know?

I could literally re-create the logic Erkor used and apply it to a hunter and it'd still work.

 

[Rabid]

My thinking is, beyond the fear and uncertainty it'd create, you can just apply the same logic for why stuff like the OTA Elites were just removed, or why we don't show synths or other whitelists y'know?

I could literally re-create the logic Erkor used and apply it to a hunter and it'd still work.

The difference there is those factions are strictly tools and seeing them pop up on the scoreboard could make people drastically rethink whatever they're doing, or ruin surprises/suspense.

@Cindy and @Erkor can back me up when I say even at TnB it was incredibly common for rebels to "mysteriously" charswap or leave the server if they saw OTA flagging up or cops swapping to the canal server.

 

[MaXenzie]

no one is going to charswap because a few cops are on

if you saw 6 OTA hanging around you wouldn't stick around because no one is "just" on 6 OTA for no reason

that's the distinction