Denied Tribune Max Jaeger's PK appeal

Discussion in 'Accepted/Denied Appeals' started by Merlinsclaw, May 15, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Merlinsclaw

    Merlinsclaw Risen From Ruins
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,493
    Nebulae:
    2,625
    Steam Name: Merlinsclaw
    Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:63717084

    Character Name: Tribune Max Jaeger

    Member of Staff Who Banned Your Character: I think it was @DreadDK though.

    What Led To Your Character's Death?: I was in the courtyard playing basketball with @drpepper2 (Koning) when two men approached and asked to play. One got behind me and attempted to stab me repeatedly with a 'Composite Knife produced out of metals attached to a small rope from his sleeve' (shiv script) in an attempt to kill me. At around this moment Op. Blue (Nashi) (who was about 10 feet away) starts walking towards the group. He passes the group up due to missing the /me by a few feet, and I call him back over. Before the situation was even fully explained Nashi said 'ok I'm flagging off for two minutes then I'll be back' and then flagged down from the character. From there I said I was stabbed three times in the neck and fell forward, before scrambling back. Koning (drpepper2) then rushed forward in an attempt to tackle the stabber before he 'dodged' out of the way. The second guy then rushed forward and tried to tackle Koning. It was around here when Nashi flagged back up, a large crowd already gathered around the fight. A Chinese guy, who walked up randomly, appeared and then proceeded to try stab Nashi in the neck, and then the second guy attempted to tackle Nashi. Then, as I was scooting backwards, the first guy turns around and charges at me with the intent to bend down and stab me to death? However, Koning charged again and in my /me I said I tried to avoid the tackle while I was on the ground by scooting to the side. After a few minutes of OOC arguing we just went forward with the plan of him getting tackled and me narrowly avoiding the tackle. At this point the Chinese and second guy get ass blasted by the proselyte. Several more proselytes show up, and the cops begin throwing tear gas. I begin crawling towards a proselyte while holding my neck. Koning has the first guy pinned down, gets stabbed in the leg, and then I get dragged off to the loyalist cells. Some medical RP was done before I got charbanned. Neither of them were PKed?

    tldr; Tribune Max Jaeger tries to play some basketball. Gets ganked. Huge cluster fuck, dies.

    Why Should Your Character Be Unbanned?: This entire situation was a giant clusterfuck. Going from the beginning, Nashi literally just flagged off during the situation. This allowed for a large crowd to form, and could've drastically changed the situation due to crowd control etc. Plus he could've shot from a distance (where he was clearly in view of the situation) and just resulted in him probably being stabbed and the situation taking an entirely different turn. Secondly, knife thing is kinda iffy. It's a glass shiv. Third, I got stabbed three times in the neck and then Koning tried multiple times to tackle the man. All of which were disputed heavily in LOOC. Fourthly, Guy #2 tried to tackle Koning before changing over to the proselyte. It wouldn't have happened if the proselyte was there the entire time and didn't flag down as I was getting stabbed and he was right beside me. Fifthly, the proselyte wouldn't have been shanked in the neck if he wouldn't have just randomly materialized from thin air in the middle of a huge crowd, and would've instead been there from the beginning to A. Call for help, B. Control the crowd and C. Change the attention away from just myself due to there literally being a proselyte like five feet away. Next, there were multiple claims that I should've pretty much instantly died and attempts to pretty much powergame and instantly kill me. I got stabbed rapidly three times in the neck by a shitty piece of glass shiv, not a knife, and not a slashed neck or anything, just three shitty fast stabs. Now, it was claimed that this would've nearly instantly killed me, but in reality the fight lasted upwards of probably 2 minutes ICly before I got medical help, which could easily be survivable. Next, after dodging the tackle, he then somehow instantly charges me. Now, he tried to 'go for my vitals' in an attempt to kill me, stating that I was super weak about 10 seconds after being stabbed three times, and was on the verge of death as his reasoning. When he was tackled by Koning he tried to state that he fell directly on me. Eventually we agreed that he fell to the side, and I crawled to a proselyte before being dragged off. (Generally for this point is the super powergamey atmosphere)

    tldr:
    * Proselyte says 'hey i'll flag back on in 2 minutes' after witnessing the stabbing and flags down. Results in completely different situation.
    * A 'knife' was used, which was really just a shitty glass shiv that was in his shoe?
    * Stabbed three times in the neck, claimed to pretty much instantly died. (Powergamey atmopshere)
    * Began backing up, guy was tackled, claims he stabbed me multiple times in the stomach/sides?
    * Would've survived three rapid fairly light stabs to the neck with medical attention within a few IC minutes.


    Date Of Occurrence: 5:30ish PM EST, 5/15/19

    Evidence:
    Dread DK provided the following statement:
    [​IMG]
    "[PM] DreadDK -> Xavier March: however you might want to mention how he didn't have the Shiv like weapon equipped in any way or didn't use any during the entire day he played the caracter except the single me of pulling it from his shoe, still not equipping a script"

    I wasn't able to capture screenshots of the logs from the fight. I'm sure someone could provide though.



    Other Players Involved: @sprite @Nashi @drpepper2 @DreadDK

    Any Other Details: The character who carried out the stabbing recently went through a PK appeal because they killed a CAB member and got caught. Also neither of them got PKed after the stabbing. At least the main guy didn't.

     
    • nebulous nebulous x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  2. the better alex

    the better alex Nucleus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    692
    Nebulae:
    1,162
    Can agree with the clusterfuck part, it was just a whole OOC mess.
    We spent about 15 minutes agreeing on rolls, who gets shot, this, that.
    I just say fuck it, injuryRP, Max is PK'd.
    Beforehand however, I did ask the dudes if they had PK auths and they said yeah, but didn't elaborate.
    Also the lack of a shiv script because EVERYBODY kept asspulling shivs from their shoes.
    Would be nice if admins can check logs for actual /mes of placing the shivs into shoes, into wrists, etc?
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 2
  3. Rabid

    Rabid Rictal-Approved

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    20,911
    Nebulae:
    48,400
    Just to point out the script isn't always indicative of what it is given shivs can be made of anything from a straight glass bottle handle to, well, metal. There's only one script for countless variations of shiv you can make from basic materials.

    The dude had the script because I'm fairly sure I was the one who gave it to him when he RP'd making it.
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 5
  4. Merlinsclaw

    Merlinsclaw Risen From Ruins
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,493
    Nebulae:
    2,625
    I didn't mind doing medical rp or rolling to see what happens and if I live or not or whatever it was just like

    lol u dead. u got stabbed and instantly died lol
     
  5. Rabid

    Rabid Rictal-Approved

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    20,911
    Nebulae:
    48,400
    You also have to remember re: "You die" is that people tend to shrug off any-and-all-wounds if they think they have a chance to be saved. If you get stabbed in the throat with a makeshift shiv made of metal - especially three times - you aren't liable to make it out of there alive and I don't really blame the killers for trying to stress the fact they went for a vital area so it'd be difficult to dispute.

    This is also why I assume you got PK'd despite not "dying".

    As for not equipping it I can answer this in part too; its a big script when the actual weapon can easily be palmed. While the action of stabbing you is easily suspicious I can guarantee someone would have OOCly seen the massive jagged bottle in hand while you guys emoted and made a move towards the scenario much sooner.
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 3
  6. Neythi

    Neythi frenchie
    HL2 RP Administrator Media Developer Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2017
    Messages:
    942
    Nebulae:
    5,115
    Neythi...not Nashi

    Btw had to go and didn't see the /me's until I came back
     
  7. 234857964238753

    234857964238753 Nucleus

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    692
    Nebulae:
    1,038
    [​IMG]


    On the comment about the knife being a glass shiv - I specifically fashioned this knife out of a road sign I recovered therefore I state it is metal, because it is, I had the shiv spawned after I RP’ed it. It is literally just some metal that’s been sharpened and with dental floss or something tied around it connecting it to the wrist. I did not equip it because it’s an unnecessarily huge script - I was however very indicative in my roleplay explicitly saying I had it. I roleplayed taking it out beforehand too, out of my shoe.


    The proselyte issue literally exceeds me as it’s none of my fault and if you’ve got a problem with it, it lies in @Neythi The actual situation would’ve taken seconds to unfold in the first quarter and @Neythi walked in, realised this (i think) and acted on timescale by going away for two minutes - coming back being attacked after trying to stop the stabbing. The stabbing in OOC time took several minutes of feuding in LOOC and of course generally writing detailed /me’s like this takes time - so I can somewhat see why he decided to wait up before entering this case. When he came back, I’m fairly certain he was about to deal with the situation, but was immediately assaulted by two people present at the court once he tried to get a glance at me. Several people were fighting at once. Not just the two of us.


    There is nothing powergamey to the way you died as I see it - You were ran up on from the back with a shiv, sliced and diced several times in your neck and abdomen and it took about five minutes before you were dragged to the UM - This would kill even the most resilient person in real life and your argument of “adrenaline” is fundamentally flawed based on the fact that adrenaline doesn’t save you from fatal injuries, it makes you act faster and can dull the pain, yes - but you’d still suffer the effects of possibly having an artery severed in the moment you were slit in the neck in a wild haze by a crazed stabber hellbent on murdering you as quick as he can.


    And no - I didn’t say he instantly died. I literally let him get taken to the UM, the proselytes didn’t drag him immediately and took as I said, about five minutes to scurry him to the doctors office.


    Quick note on the PK auths part: CAB is under PK risk 24/7 - You don’t need specific auths to take them out as a citizen, I capitalized on you being almost completely alone to do this. As would most people living in a glorified concentration camp being fed rarely. I made sure of this by asking @Mic15000 beforehand.


    The backing up part is complicated - I was tackled from the back directly onto you at full speed from, as aforementioned in the server, a physically able man who had not suffered any damages. I don’t see how you could dodge someone being forcibly crashed down onto you like that whilst you’re on the floor with a fatal injury.


    On your other details I see you mention my other case - which doesn’t carry any relevance but I will say it anyways; it was attributed to John Mcree stalling the scenario for almost half an hour throwing a hissy fit refusing to roleplay, escalating a situation that’d be otherwise quick into taking extremely long, angering both overseeing staff and literally everyone involved.




    Written by @ruble
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 9
  8. Señor Jaggles

    Señor Jaggles Zasshu Impaler Extraordinaire
    Moderator HL2 RP Senior Administrator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,079
    Nebulae:
    9,273
    With all due respect three stabs to the back of the neck with a shiv are not something you survive to, honestly. And if you do (there's a TINY chance you do) - You won't survive the following minutes or surgery, certainly not in a place like that prison.
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. '77 East

    '77 East `impulse-approved

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2017
    Messages:
    5,236
    Nebulae:
    11,984
    There were two/three proselytes on while this happened, and 4 Units, just to confirm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Rabid

    Rabid Rictal-Approved

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    20,911
    Nebulae:
    48,400
    Last post but I'd just like to add that the Proselyte nearby had no way to stop the stabbings from the timeline - at most he'd have seen you get shanked and shot the dude who did it, but you'd still have taken those shots to the neck by the time he lifted the weapon and got a clear shot on the dude without nailing you. The point to stop the attack is before, which he had no way of doing.

    It doesn't take much to pull back and stab with a shank either, so even if we go with the bare minimum of one stab that'd be more than enough to punch a nasty hole in your throat and given the time it took for the fighting to die down (if we presume the tackling would have commenced) your chances aint good.

    Don't think this is me setting you up to die, more so that I'm not sure how the Proselyte being there would have saved you. The neck stabs were the lethal part.
     
  11. Merlinsclaw

    Merlinsclaw Risen From Ruins
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,493
    Nebulae:
    2,625
    Most of the points Ruble brought up were stuff that people questioned you about regarding the attack. I didn't bring up the PK auths, adrenaline, etc. That was drpepper2 during the fight. Secondly I saw the 'shots at the abdomen' as invalid. Don't know how the admins want to see it.

    As for this in the time that I had fell to the ground and he was occupied with being tackled and charged at by Koning I was doing my best to hold down the wound. Plus the cause of death currently was most likely the bleeding, as it took 3 or so minutes to get to the clinic. This delay was mainly because the proselytes weren't there to respond because they literally weren't there. Plus if we are talking about three rapid stabs by a shittly sharpened piece of metal then it couldn't have gone that deep. Therefor with the sequence of events changed, there is a good chance that I could've survived. We'll see how it goes though.
     
  12. '77 East

    '77 East `impulse-approved

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2017
    Messages:
    5,236
    Nebulae:
    11,984
    Because they were occupied elsewhere, this does not hold any merit to invaliding this PK what-so-ever.

    You were out in a courtyard, exposed, and got fucked over while at the mercy of detainees.
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 1
  13. 234857964238753

    234857964238753 Nucleus

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    692
    Nebulae:
    1,038
    [​IMG]


    There is nothing you could’ve done in those moments that would’ve changed the outcome - Pressing down being sliced and diced in the neck won’t do anything. When people stab someone in real life, they’re not doing crazy round based game mechanics like runescape they’re dishing out rapid stabs hence why guards on blades exist so you don’t slice up your entire hand. Three minutes including the time it took from when stabs initially came in would literally be enough to ice you. Depth of the strikes aren’t the defining factor. It’s that you’re peppered by stabs in several different places in rapid succession opening up sucking wounds in your neck that spew out blood and will literally choke you out. From a logical standpoint; there is no “good chance” you could’ve lived.


    - Yours truly and best wishes from @ruble
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 7
  14. Merlinsclaw

    Merlinsclaw Risen From Ruins
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,493
    Nebulae:
    2,625
    No, you don't understand.

    The proselyte was *right* beside me. Literally like 10 feet away when I got shanked.

    He walked over and said in LOOC "I'm flagging down I'll be back in 2 minutes." and flagged down right beside the group and flagged back up like 10 minutes later.

    The proselyte was *there.*

    Therefor making your point invalid.
     
  15. Señor Jaggles

    Señor Jaggles Zasshu Impaler Extraordinaire
    Moderator HL2 RP Senior Administrator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,079
    Nebulae:
    9,273
    The neck is tender, you can stab someone with a fork there and still kill them. There's also plenty of important blood vessels, your airway, and your spine. So far, more people have survived to injuries on the head than to injuries on the neck. The "best" thing that can happen to you if you're hurt on your neck is full paralysis.

    No the proselyte flagged so he certainly wasn't there. I'm also sure that stuff took more than 2 minutes because all those actions take more than that OOCly, as roleplay isn't the most fast paced thing in the world.

    Why do CAB return to the Nexus when OTA has to go, or why do they get TPed when an OTA crashes?

    This is the reason why. Except there's no Nexus here, and the proselyte shouldn't have flagged, and you shouldn't have stood there unguarded.
     
  16. '77 East

    '77 East `impulse-approved

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2017
    Messages:
    5,236
    Nebulae:
    11,984
    Tribunes aren't supposed to have a guard for the record, so...

    Yeah, just two cents, unless someone's done something with protocol in my absence.
     
  17. Rabid

    Rabid Rictal-Approved

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    20,911
    Nebulae:
    48,400
    As I said earlier though, he couldn't have stopped you being stabbed - the time for that would have been before the attack by not letting you get surrounded.

    He didn't see the scenario happen so him flagging off changed nothing - he wasn't in a position to prevent your death; at best he could have shot Ruble in the aftermath if he had of been there.
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 1
  18. Merlinsclaw

    Merlinsclaw Risen From Ruins
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,493
    Nebulae:
    2,625
    what

    ok a. the proselyte wasn't guarding me, tribunes don't get guards
    b. the proselyte was standing in the courtyard, walked over when I started getting shanked, and said 'ok I'll be back in 2 minutes to RP this situation' and as you literally just pointed out, it was longer than two minutes.

    @Neythi I don't know if you have anything to say about that.
     
  19. the better alex

    the better alex Nucleus

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    692
    Nebulae:
    1,162
    If Tribunes aren't supposed to have a guard, doesn't that mean they have normal citizen PK procedure, even though they're CAB?
     
    • Zing Zing x 1
  20. Señor Jaggles

    Señor Jaggles Zasshu Impaler Extraordinaire
    Moderator HL2 RP Senior Administrator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2016
    Messages:
    6,079
    Nebulae:
    9,273
    They're still CAB

    Stabbing happened, didn't it?

    Then it's death. It's clean cut, I won't argue the point that three stabs to the back of the neck mean nearly instant death.
     
    • nebulous nebulous x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice