HELIX 4 SEASON 1 CIVIL PROTECTION: DECLASSIFIED

dallahan

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III. ASHEVILLE; THE TURNING POINT
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Asheville was, undeniably, the most important map of the iteration.

[I've been sitting here for two hours, trying to figure out how to structure this chapter.

There were so many things that went wrong that I don't know what to start with. I'm pulling evidence from so many sources that piecing together the canonical order of events is becoming a daunting task.

As such, I think I'll start with listing the good things about the map, as otherwise the rest of the chapter would be depression-inducing.

- The mortar system was in the beginning an engaging one and provided a novelty to the gunfights.
- The sole dev of the server was rather receptive to our complaints and helped us resolve some of our issues.
- The restrictions regarding OTA deployments were, for a while, rather liberal. Despite still bleeding people, we had support from Phase 1s and beyond.
- The G36 came to be.
- For better or worse, the entire core Rank Leader roster was finally active (unlike on the previous maps).
- SPIRE events allowed us to hone our much needed skills at relatively low risk.
- We got a dedicated faction leader, even if it didn't amount to much.
- The plotline of the alien controller was one that kept at least some of the faction members engaged.
- Civil Protection still had its personality, even if it was beginning to fade.
- The base defense operation, even if inconsequential, was extremely thrilling.
- Zulu crates were accessible by all.]

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To sum up the previous maps - the support of synths is gone altogether, APC usage is restricted, our faction's finest are being extracted to OTA, what little rebel weapons we have (referring to the SKS and such) lack any ammo, we no longer use public VCs due to community backlash and overregulation, we run into battery-related issues on a regular basis, our relationship with our management is strained due to them basing decisions off of rebel complaints rather than facts and vortigaunts remain a menace we have no counterplay to.
We are, iteration-wise, at our weakest.

The following collection of events which I am about to show you isn't necessarily in chronological order. They've been grouped together to highlight issues which they were related to; their order is meant to make sense from a storytelling perspective.

I'll start off with the most obvious; the rapid powercreep of the rebels.
For the sake of a comparison, here's our loot from a won fight from relatively early into the map:
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What you see here is mainly the Vityaz, a 9mm weapon with strength comparable to the MP5K, standard issue weapon for 50% rankpoint units. The MP7s were likely recovered from our own dead 75s/Phase 1s.
Here's one just two weeks later:
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Here you see two AKs and an FN FAL, weapons far more potent than what the majority of Civil Protection was wielding.

Simultaneously, the first 130 armour blacksuits emerged. This difference of 30 EHP might not seem significant, but on average it meant each rebel now took two MP7 bodyshots more to kill, a massive difference when multiplied by the total amount of rebels who nearly always would outnumber cops.
This meant that the rebels which up until then were relatively quickly taken down from an MP7 burst (clip from apoc):
Suddenly gained the ability to facetank fire from the exact same weapon:

Now wielding weapons capable of killing us within four bodyshots and with EHP smaller by only 10 compared to a Phase 1 OTA, the rebels stopped being an environmental threat of 'you might run into the enemy' and advanced to solo-squad-wiping potential.
We felt this first-hand very harshly; the sudden difference in balance did not go unnoticed, as evidenced by this thread:

Briefly touching upon the vortigaunt issue: throughout the map we were granted the suppressed G36, a Rank Leader exclusive gun. It was finally our very own weapon to deal with vortigaunts, and coupled with asheville's very limited render distance, the vortbeam was, for the time being, no longer the threat it once posed.

Back to the rebels: together with the gear now surpassing ours, something else changed about them. They, out of the blue, seemed to organise into groups and come to the city, our territory, to mow us down. It was suddenly happening on a regular basis that at the very least a majority of our teams would die for the sole sin of leaving our base.
Take note of the amount of biosignals lost in these videos:
At its worst, it would reach a point where packs of 130 armour blacksuits would hide near the entrance to our base and wait for us to leave just to have the ability to kill us without PK risk.
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This is but one piece of the puzzle. The second one will be our 'talented' Civil Protection player which also happened to double as a vortigaunt player. Known by the name rob, it turned out that his peculiar ability wasn't confined to the whitelist. As we were fortunate enough to have the rebel frequency at the time, we began to notice a pattern: there was a vortigaunt who would always spot us whenever we deployed, exact numbers and position and call it out over the radio. Eventually we learned that it was rob, and the culmination of the saga was as follows:
Ending with a permanent ban for rob, all seemed well as a cheater [I say this not lightly; I am 100% confident rob was cheating. It may not have been ESP like I believed at the time but bar all this anomalous in-game behaviour he admitted that 'smoke didn't render' for him.] was banned.

That was until Tommygman who was part of the ban appeal management at the time made a 45 seconds long video defending rob's actions, showcasing the behaviour of render distance on the bridge, trying to prove that it was in fact possible for him to have spotted numbers. When questioned about the odd behaviours rob was displaying during apocalypse he claimed complete ignorance; it was then that we learned of our mistake of not documenting it. (I don't think he was necessarily lying in this instance, he did not integrate much with the general Civil Protection community at the time.) It ultimately ends up with rob being unbanned and sets an unrealistically high standard for prosecution; it was from now on impossible for a cheater to be banned unless they either provided self-incriminating evidence of cheating themselves or they were straight up MassRDM'ing.

This precedent is soon reinforced when, while on a rather aimless swim underwater, we're abruptly fired upon:
This situation immediately alerts me as I, having played on my rebel and having frequently looked for Zulu crates, I know it's very rare for that particular spot to be manned; let alone be used to look straight into the water below the bridge. This, by my request, triggers an investigation (this is a rather boring clip):
The player turns out to be Antloin, who at the time was also involved in an incident where an event team member dropped thermal goggles, an entity otherwise restricted for Elite OTA. In the investigation it's revealed that whenever we approach the rebel auths-restricted zone, with no communication of leaving the base and nobody witnessing us, Antloin runs up to us three times in a row. Unfortunately, due to the standard set by Tommygman during the rob case, this was insufficient evidence for a ban.
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We discuss the option of cloaking ourselves but it's never followed up upon.
Nowadays, Antloin has admitted to modifying his game:

The rebel side having two blatant cheaters ends up being very demoralising to us at the time, simultaneously giving a convenient excuse to subpar Rank Leaders for their losses. [Back then and still I believe that cheating or not, the failure was on those Rank Leaders for failing to adapt to the situation.]
the sounds in these clips give me ptsd
 
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FreeSpy

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Where an outnumbered rebel is unPK'd despite engaging us 1v4. Another examples include a captured vortigaunt who is teleported out of our base through staff assistance straight into a minefield which results in their death; the appeal is accepted due to it being a staff mistake somehow, even though there was no other option of climbing the and the minefield was there for a reason. Another one that comes to mind is one where a rebel gets captured, requests a PK on the spot and then is unPK'd on the basis of a 1-month old PSA.
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I know now and I in fact agree with the principle of not PKing people as a result of organic s2k conflict, but at the time it was happening it was contradictory with how the rules were written (the rules predated the iteration, in fact). The lack of a direct resolution and instead treating it all as a fuzzy issue with vague verdicts was causing us much frustration at the time, leading us to backward conclusions.
I'd like to touch base with this point, as I caught myself re-reading this post i realized I am one of the people that was involved in the PK appeals decisions.

We had a group chat called the morgue where we basicly talked over all of the PK appeals that were not really clear cut. The PK appeals team was set up in a way where we could not get held up at an impasse (It was 2 deputies, 1 pk manager at the beginning. and we also had mic there to help provide clarity after a couple of months)

The 5/feb/23 incident is actually the thermal goggles one, which I'll provide context for: Reading into it, and watching all available footage it seemed clear to us antloin was stuck, rather than sticking there of his own volition. regardless, that decision was not ours to make after a few hours as numbers decided to take control of that, which I can appreciate given it was a pretty complex issue.


Regarding the PK in the clips, we looked at it in a very simplified manner, which was that the rebel was nowhere near where combine are usually spotted, as it was a relatively known transit area for rebels to go from place to place, which showed intent of not actually wanting to out to fight. Then there was the "offensive actions" part of it, which to us entailed like this

- Cops initiate an alteraction through the attempt to capture
- Rebel responds with fighting back

For us the lonewolfing criteria was that the solo player must take offensive actions against a larger party for it to be counted. Could this have been a fearrp break? Yeah, most likely. Hell, I wish I still had logs of that appeal discussion to try and figure out if we even considered that, but that's basicly what happened with the lonewolfing verdict. The issues with lonewolfing did not stop for a long time however and i feel that this rule caused us (and the players in retrospect) more stress than it should've. when we discussed the PK rules prior to launch (Jaggles, Numbers and I), we did not really anticipate it becoming a big issue and was a mechanism to try and promote team play in a server with a format that may not really be the best promoter of such playstyles

PK appeals were a little convoluted (I am not sure how much more convoluted than the helix 1 PK appeals, mic can shed light if he still looks at this forum), and the discussions ranged from like two day long arguments to "hey guys i'll be denying this appeal since it's pretty clear cut".

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alright there goes my monthly boredom post
 
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Señor Jaggles

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I'd like to touch base with this point, as I caught myself re-reading this post i realized I am one of the people that was involved in the PK appeals decisions.

We had a group chat called the morgue where we basicly talked over all of the PK appeals that were not really clear cut. The PK appeals team was set up in a way where we could not get held up at an impasse (It was 2 deputies, 1 pk manager at the beginning. and we also had mic there to help provide clarity after a couple of months)

The 5/feb/23 incident is actually the thermal goggles one, which I'll provide context for: Reading into it, and watching all available footage it seemed clear to us antloin was stuck, rather than sticking there of his own volition. regardless, that decision was not ours to make after a few hours as numbers decided to take control of that, which I can appreciate given it was a pretty complex issue.


Regarding the PK in the clips, we looked at it in a very simplified manner, which was that the rebel was nowhere near where combine are usually spotted, as it was a relatively known transit area for rebels to go from place to place, which showed intent of not actually wanting to out to fight. Then there was the "offensive actions" part of it, which to us entailed like this

- Cops initiate an alteraction through the attempt to capture
- Rebel responds with fighting back

For us the lonewolfing criteria was that the solo player must take offensive actions against a larger party for it to be counted. Could this have been a fearrp break? Yeah, most likely. Hell, I wish I still had logs of that appeal discussion to try and figure out if we even considered that, but that's basicly what happened with the lonewolfing verdict. The issues with lonewolfing did not stop for a long time however and i feel that this rule caused us (and the players in retrospect) more stress than it should've. when we discussed the PK rules prior to launch (Jaggles, Numbers and I), we did not really anticipate it becoming a big issue and was a mechanism to try and promote team play in a server with a format that may not really be the best promoter of such playstyles

PK appeals were a little convoluted (I am not sure how much more convoluted than the helix 1 PK appeals, mic can shed light if he still looks at this forum), and the discussions ranged from like two day long arguments to "hey guys i'll be denying this appeal since it's pretty clear cut".

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alright there goes my monthly boredom post

What was the convo between us about? I don't recall any soviet charges during the period
 
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Sil

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i do not remember i just found it a good example of how much intensity the debates about some of the appeals were. think it was the ropot appeal
Idk if I should be happy or worried my brain has erased that appeal from my brain
Wasn't that situation similar to how K4E was dealt with in WW3RP or am I misremembering things
 
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Simman102

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Regarding the PK in the clips, we looked at it in a very simplified manner, which was that the rebel was nowhere near where combine are usually spotted, as it was a relatively known transit area for rebels to go from place to place, which showed intent of not actually wanting to out to fight. Then there was the "offensive actions" part of it, which to us entailed like this

- Cops initiate an alteraction through the attempt to capture
- Rebel responds with fighting back

For us the lonewolfing criteria was that the solo player must take offensive actions against a larger party for it to be counted.
"We look at it in a very simplified manner"
"For us the lonewolfing criteria"

That is exactly the type of thinking that was causing friction in the first place. The PK criteria in the ruleset very clearly outlined the circumstances in which a player would be PK'd and mentioned no exceptions, and from our perspective the PK appeal team was circumventing them to get rebels unPK'd. To my understanding the role of the team was to investigate the situation to determine presence of foul play or any other errors, not reinvent the ruleset.
 
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Señor Jaggles

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"We look at it in a very simplified manner"
"For us the lonewolfing criteria"

That is exactly the type of thinking that was causing friction in the first place. The PK criteria in the ruleset very clearly outlined the circumstances in which a player would be PK'd and mentioned no exceptions, and from our perspective the PK appeal team was circumventing them to get rebels unPK'd. To my understanding the role of the team was to investigate the situation to determine presence of foul play or any other errors, not reinvent the ruleset.

At which point did I circumvent? At some point I found specific cases where no wrong intentions were had, or where situation was a misunderstanding or a lack of perspective kind of issue, but I did not, certainly, readjust rules to let rebels get unPKed, if anything I am one of the people who got in the most arguments with the rebel side of things
 

Simman102

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At which point did I circumvent? At some point I found specific cases where no wrong intentions were had, or where situation was a misunderstanding or a lack of perspective kind of issue, but I did not, certainly, readjust rules to let rebels get unPKed, if anything I am one of the people who got in the most arguments with the rebel side of things
I'm not saying what you did or what you didn't do, I'm saying how it was perceived at the time.
 
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FreeSpy

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"We look at it in a very simplified manner"
"For us the lonewolfing criteria"
well... yes, we (from the PK team, me and Jaggles) helped introduce the lonewolfing rule, to try and stop solo attacks. We know the criteria because we made it. Hindsight showed us we may not have conveyed it properly, for what reason, I go into it at the end of the post

That is exactly the type of thinking that was causing friction in the first place. The PK criteria in the ruleset very clearly outlined the circumstances in which a player would be PK'd and mentioned no exceptions
Yep. We did not have the foresight to really think about a scenario like Oswald's PK where he was approached in a circumstance.

To my understanding the role of the team was to investigate the situation to determine presence of foul play or any other errors, not reinvent the ruleset.
Which brings me to this quote. We didn't reinvent any rules, although if you count interpretations of certain PK criteria rules as a modification or reinvention, sure. It is also the fact that some things were interpreted differently by staff members when PKing someone, and the nature of PKs (and subsequently their appeals) being case by case issues it does require interpretation. In clear cut situations we did check for foul play, errors, etc (See the Rickard Pinot PK appeal and the subsequent re-do we had to oversee)

and from our perspective the PK appeal team was circumventing them to get rebels unPK'd
I'm not saying what you did or what you didn't do, I'm saying how it was perceived at the time.
That... is understandable. I can see why it looks like that and there's definitely been a couple of bullshit appeals (The 'Ropot' appeal was one of those), however take into account rebels have been the majority of the PKs across the board

Given I still have access to the PK appeals board, I decided to have a gander at what PKs happened and what resolutions they recieved.

I've tallied up the following:
19 resistance PK appeals, of which
- 8 of which were denied.
- 6 of which were accepted were lone wolfing issues, Five of which were very ambiguous and questionable lone wolfing scenarios (One of which basicly just solved itself), and another was an apoc thing where a guy accidentally walked in the combine base and promptly fucking domed.
- 4 of which were internal conflict appeals which were just not really valid
- 1 of which was a misunderstanding

(I did not include one appeal as I was on a break at that point. Tori handled it respect toriwarrior)

Two appeals come to note and they are both Vortigaunts, Ropot's appeal which was denied (and then he was made a biotic), and Bagaret's appeal which was accepted but to the point where the character was no longer allowed to utilize his powers due to IC actions. These are the only ones that can be seen as a bending of the rules to keep resistance players alive, Ropot's case which was just not really our choice, and Bagaret's appeal which I took the decision to do it because it seemed to be the best compromise as all parties agreed.


and 2 Combine PK appeals, both of which were denied fairly quickly for valid reasons. (One was a cop telling others he wanted to go rogue, and another was a cop being killed in captivity)


Did we make mistakes? Yeah, 1000%. We didn't think far enough when making the ruleset (Atleast the PK criterias), and we did make alterations when we saw potential for massive issues ahead of time. This is the consequences of beginning with a team with some members that did not have experience with HL2RP on the back end. The staff team was significantly different and was operating in a setting which the wisdom from BQ's iteration, or Linntrix's iteration, and these iterations could not have fully prepared us for, even if we did have a lot of staff members with experience from the settings that came before the Numbers iteration, for a format like this.

reconciliation & moving on in this community seems to be more difficult than passing kidney stones
yeah. to be honest my posts came as a sort of explanation for everything that happened, because this was a big complaint during the iteration that gave us some stress when handling PK appeals, and I feel it is an old wound that should be addressed, atleast from our side.
 
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deathwolf

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I'm not saying what you did or what you didn't do, I'm saying how it was perceived at the time.
I just went through all my old convos and I found an old PK auth request i made against you im cracking up:

Hi, I'm not PK hungry, I haven't Pk'd many people in my life, but I feel it may be necessary to PK the cop, Jury-8, played by Simman.

I play Renjiro Kobayashi, he is a quasi-CAB Spy, but is more in an immunity limbo due to the various things happening with CAB, but this role was set up by Takeshi, played by Nexus, who contacted the then premier, Zing, to get me pardoned for my BOL and to get me a job under Zing.

After returning to the city for some time, I encountered, in I17, Simmans cop, Jury-8, he got other cops to his location, forced me to the wall, and was going to kill me, due to him thinking I was still BOL'd, after finding out that I was protected by CAB, he immediately called me a rat, openly in the city, which could easily get me killed by any Resistance Member.

Since then, I have had numerous encounters with the same cop, each time, I have been called a rat by them in public, and at times, a traitor. These comments could easily end up with resistance members targetting me to try and kill me.

Around a week ago, Simmans cop approached me, calling me a Rat once more, before forcing me into the back of a store to do a job for him, renewing an apartment for a girl which I assume is his girlfriend. From what I remember, he gave me some vague threats after I renewed his store, before leaving.

Today, I walked past his cop, he once more called me a Rat, before whispering to three of his cop friends, moments later, I am called out by one of the cops, and searched, in public, after finding nothing on me, the cop huffed, before leaving.

I don't know if this is grounds for a PK auth, but I just don't want to be killed due to me being outed as a spy by this one cop.

As to how I would identify which cop I would kill, it's simple, he's the only cop to ever call me a rat, and he does so any time I walk past them


On the PK management side of things I give you the green light, but HC's need to also approve on their side

kill him in front of his girlfriend for bonus points


i support this
hi sorry

how do u plan to do it and u are aware it puts you at SERIOUS risk of death
renjojqo found dead at hands of bicurious civil protection unit
i understand, i don’t know how i plan to go about it yet, but i’ll work something out
well i carry a firearm on me sometimes, so i could just off him if i see them, or i could get a loyal soldier such as clinton dean, played by Tinbe, to kill them after i identify them
yea but HOW do you identify them out of the tons of identical other Men In Cop Suits
probably having him go "rat" lol
ah i see ok

well since everyone seems ok with this go ahead ig



I was either too pussy to go through with it or I ended up getting captured i don’t remember exactly. I love going through old convos they are goldmines
 

Señor Jaggles

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reconciliation & moving on in this community seems to be more difficult than passing kidney stones

I feel there can be no reconciliation without people getting proper closure, and I'm not talking about an "ending of iteration event" but a just clarification of the things done wrong and not just "sweeping stuff under the rug". Many players, and many staff even, feel like certain events were mishandled or simply not handled at all which is beyond negligent. For instance, how some people could intently (understanding anyone can make mistakes of course, not the case I refer to), openly and even almost proudly and outwardly abuse their powers and authority for their personal or friends' gain and they didn't get immediately removed as its obvious there was more to lose than to win from allowing malicious behavior like that will forever escape my understanding.

It was a good and fairly long run, but it survived because the concept was good and there were still people willing to keep up with all the bullshit and push forward (this is not me talking out of my ass, it's not like I stop talking to people about the server just because I resigned then) and that is what kept everything going. Whether the people who helped and the people who as a byproduct of their abuse boycotted the server can or cannot be a Venn's diagram is a topic for another discussion, but things were not really under control and nothing was truly being enforced, and saying otherwise is simply lying.

When people do not get a justification for stuff they were done to them, when rules are not enforced, when fair play is not ensured, and where things are not done responsibly and with the enjoyment of everyone in mind without a toxic or stupidly competitive mindset, everyone's bound to keep some bits of remorse, especially when this fair play was not ensured and enforced. I don't know if its due to pressure, to higher staff not wanting to be the "bad guys" or simply bending in the direction of the people who are more likely to accept rules and punishment, regardless of the side (although evidently, majorly the Combine side always get the short stick as they're the ones used to following rules in their own roleplay and protocols and otherwise more "lawful" and restricted gameplay).

The issue is that going onto the next iteration, and the next after that, and seeing the same people with the same power doing the same, good ol' unjust and outright abusive stuff is beyond the comprehension of many, and I don't mean mobs of specific players making claims that they can't believe themselves, but the average player who sees their experience altered or forced every time and again and is rightfully mad at the situation.

On the other hand said mobs do not help the case, as they will always perpetuate those stories to take jabs at eachother and generally generate animosity (THAT is what generates animosity, not legitimate complaints, discussions over important matters and real punishments). This basically endlessly continues the cycle of hate, distrust and overall toxicity, so yeah, it is quite literally like passing a kidney stone.