[CCC] Combine Overwatch - Complaints, Compliments and Concerns.

MaXenzie

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IMO should've been given a PK. Nothing personal.

You were caught actively sabotaging Combine equipment and subsequently shot for it, you're lucky to have even been given the opportunity to NLR suck a reckless and negligent act.

no more negligent than rebel goonsquads running about picking fights with combine patrols when we have fuck-all ammo

if the punishment for bad engagements with cops is NLR and the punishment for doing anything more inventive like sabotage is a PK, then people will just stop doing inventive things
 

Cavity

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no more negligent than rebel goonsquads running about picking fights with combine patrols when we have fuck-all ammo

if the punishment for bad engagements with cops is NLR and the punishment for doing anything more inventive like sabotage is a PK, then people will just stop doing inventive things
There is a difference between an S2K engagement where you get NLR and being killed ICly through RP. That should be a clean-cut PK. You accept those risks when you do something like that.
 

Cavity

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says who? you?
Kinda rude, alright.

No, I don't actually since I'm not a staff member. It just logically makes sense to PK a player when they were ICly killed through RP, and their actions inherently warranted their death. Factors such as...

. Never would have been killed if he didn't start the RP (sabotage)
. Took actions against Combine with only him and another player
. Killed in an IC interaction
. Accepted inherent risk of death taking IC and roleplay action against Combine faction.

These seem like VERY PKable factors, that is why I am saying he is lucky to have escaped with only an NLR which he probably shouldn't have received. Just so you know, if the roles were reversed and it was a CP or Overwatch player? I would also root for the PK based on the factors above.
 

constantdisplay

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Feel like there's a bit of a line where the Combine shouldn't be flogged for shooting someone who literally tried to deactivate the defences keeping them safe and admitting to lying, honestly. I don't really see an avenue where someone is let live for doing that, or how it really makes sense?

Not to pull a whataboutism but it was perfectly acceptable for rebels to shoot (and PK) pretty much any rogue on the grounds of it making sense, and I've not really seen any backlash to that?
im pretty sure rebels pking a rogue hasnt happened since *GENEVA* and i think quick shoot and kill pks are not widely accepted as a-ok lol, armbands literally complained that tinbes cop got pked because they didnt intend for that to happen and it still wasnt overturned which i dont think rebels can be blamed for. and anyway, seems like the issue here is that cops didnt attempt to try match the rp they were being given before killing them, pk or no pk
 
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MaXenzie

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Kinda rude, alright.

No, I don't actually since I'm not a staff member. It just logically makes sense to PK a player when they were ICly killed through RP, and their actions inherently warranted their death. Factors such as...

. Never would have been killed if he didn't start the RP (sabotage)
. Took actions against Combine with only him and another player
. Killed in an IC interaction
. Accepted inherent risk of death taking IC and roleplay action against Combine faction.

These seem like VERY PKable factors, that is why I am saying he is lucky to have escaped with only an NLR which he probably shouldn't have received. Just so you know, if the roles were reversed and it was a CP or Overwatch player? I would also root for the PK based on the factors above.

what you deem logical and what i deem logical are very different.

a PK is a punishment first and foremost
it is a complete loss of both in-game progress both mechanically and thematically, with all character development crushed underfoot under the absurd notion that the server requires a looming sword of damocles dangling over everyone's heads in order to prevent them from acting out.
what it instead does it encourages people to sit around doing nothing because they dont want to lose 6 months to a year of roleplay and character development because they dared do something.
for many people a PK is cause to stop playing the server

this is predomianntly a Rebels vs Combine server, as much as i dont like that. PKing people for engaging with the main draw of the server is absolutely idiotic.

im pretty sure rebels pking a rogue hasnt happened since *GENEVA* and i think quick shoot and kill pks are not widely accepted as a-ok lol, armbands literally complained that tinbes cop got pked because they didnt intend for that to happen and it still wasnt overturned which i dont think rebels can be blamed for. and anyway, seems like the issue here is that cops didnt attempt to try match the rp they were being given before killing them, pk or no pk

my second character on this server is an open ex-cop who literally introduces himself with "hey i used to serve in city 18"
the worst reaction he's got was Crow ( @Laura ) pistol-whipping him before storming off.
everyone else either acknowledges him with mild suspicion or shrugs it off immediately
 
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Ron

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image.png

I'm mostly just making this because I was being held at an additional OOC gunpoint by everyone in my VC to make a case about this. I suppose it's fair to let people know, so they can improve.

I understand people gotta die and wait not, it was only NLR and all so it doesn't even affect anything overall OOC or ICly. I'm not upset about being shot, don't care at all, really. more-so just immediately being isolated from RP. Given the other guy I was with got to RP and get an outcome in some way (despite doing the same thing as I did) whereas I was sent to wait in spawn for fifteen minutes. There wasn't any interesting build-up to being NLRed and imo it would've been a really good opportunity to make things interesting because neither party needs to worry about upsetting each other. Maybe it's the other way round, people view NLR deaths as not worthy of much effort.

It's mostly just a bit rubbish. That's it. Nothing happened, it wasn't done in a interesting way, nor was there any room for me to make any particularly interesting responses. It also just doesn't make sense why vandal A gets shot but vandal B doesn't. I would've liked my responses to be a bit better, I admit, but I couldn't really build on anything since I couldn't see the gunman about to deescalate the back of my head.

The whole line with the 'very convenient excuse' thing is, well, a bit rubbish too. I understand that 51B carries a death charge regardless and that we did mention doing unauthorised maintenance before (which they didn't really bother asking about or doing anything at all). There's reason I suppose to suspect us of not being truthful, because we weren't. We were lying, yeah - but there was nothing done about that. I won't deny the shooting can be justified, it just felt like they didn't want to bother roleplaying. It felt to me like they knew the possible outcomes but couldn't be bothered to RP towards any of them them, nor investigate anything. So they just did one simple but sort of weird action that semi-covered all the bases, I know you could sort of make a case for meta, but I think that's why they released the other guy, I suppose - then again, it was an NLR death so it isn't really a meta situation. They just sort of factored in everything but just chose an easy way out with minimal RP (sure it was also an easy way out for me, I didn't lose anything at all, nor did my buddy, really). There was just nothing done to progress, well, anything. I'm trying not to offend, so I'll stop going on about it soon but all-in-all, it felt like they came in disinterested or bored, so they didn't put any effort into it. This also meant none of the other cops could do anything of note.

I don't want to be the RP police but this isn't the first interaction with cops I've had that's just been plainly boring or felt like I was just being ignored. I think it's partly to blame on just general decline of things for the Combine to do, even in the city cops seemed a bit bored. I feel the decision to execute immediately was a little bit weird as well, given there was so much potential for further roleplay or even just to do, well, more to it? As I said before, maybe people view NLR deaths as just unworthy of much effort. I can't say much more on it, I'd like to give some constructive feedback but I'll hold off until anything comes in about how the situation was for the Combine so I can be more relevant with it. I could put some more feedback in about when I think interactions with cops started declining, but that's more relevant to my last post.

tl;dr rp no good, no story progress was made nor was it interesting. Sure, progress isn't too important, but actual effort is nice.
Since this is veering off topic, I would like to say that me and Kiko are looking into the circumstances of what happened and, while it may take some time to figure out what happened since neither of us were there, we are going to see what unfolded. I appreciate your feedback.

I kindly ask everyone else to not have a discussion about PK rules or what should/shouldn't be a PK for rebels since that falls outside the scope of this thread.
 
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Blitz0012

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IMO should've been given a PK. Nothing personal.

You were caught actively sabotaging Combine equipment and subsequently shot for it, you're lucky to have even been given the opportunity to NLR suck a reckless and negligent act.
This is what I mean, man. It could've been so much more, I'd probably cry if I was PKed on that Char being honest but that's just how it goes. At least there would've been a higher standard of roleplay if they'd wanted to go for a PK, right? The problem is that the RP was low quality and nothing happened. I don't mind not getting any story progress or char development in favour of an NLR. I actually REALLY appreciate that I was only NLRed, I don't think I said that too obviously. NLRs being common is fine imo, if you play the server with the intention of PKing people all the time you just get people not wanting to come outside to RP, which already sort of happens.

I'll say, man, I think you're alright. I've never been a huge fan of the brutalsky hyper-loyalist cops - but you actually put in effort to RP. I've seen it, y'know - not my sort of RP but I can respect and appreciate the effort you put in. Surely you can see how this situation is, well, not great RP. Certainly not befitting of a PK. Same situation imo with the cop who got instantly executed, I was there ICly trying to get him not executed.

We need to start appreciating the effort each other puts in more. Less PKs is good, more trust in NLRs is fine - because it's got more room to continue RP both sides want to dp. But just not putting in effort when you shoot anyone is sort of, well, bad. Not putting in effort when RPing in general, is just bad. That's what I'm getting at.
 
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Blitz0012

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Since this is veering off topic, I would like to say that me and Kiko are looking into the circumstances of what happened and, while it may take some time to figure out what happened since neither of us were there, we are going to see what unfolded. I appreciate your feedback.

I kindly ask everyone else to not have a discussion about PK rules or what should/shouldn't be a PK for rebels since that falls outside the scope of this thread.
I agree, it's not about PK or anything. It's just about the amount of effort people are putting into RP. I admit, maybe it was more of an obvious line of RP to me than them, I just think it's a shame when things turn out like this.
 
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Mike65536

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All I can say about this, is despite the events that took place, discouraging being in a VC in general is dumb, as a member of both Resistance and CivPro factions, I want to talk to members of both.
 

Ron

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All I can say about this, is despite the events that took place, discouraging being in a VC in general is dumb, as a member of both Resistance and CivPro factions, I want to talk to members of both.
It's common sense to not sit in a VC while engaged in S2K with someone in the opposing faction you're actively fighting. This is a hard stance I have regarding this.
 

MaXenzie

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It's common sense to not sit in a VC while engaged in S2K with someone in the opposing faction you're actively fighting. This is a hard stance I have regarding this.

people are just going to be quieter about being in VCs

its a stupid, impossible to enforce rule that can only be enforced either illegally (by screenrecording someone or otherwise gaining access to their computer without consent) or by some stupid moron ratting themselves out
 
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Mike65536

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It's common sense to not sit in a VC while engaged in S2K with someone in the opposing faction you're actively fighting. This is a hard stance I have regarding this.
Discord has a deafen function, it takes like a second to turn on.
 
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Simman102

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people are just going to be quieter about being in VCs

its a stupid, impossible to enforce rule that can only be enforced either illegally (by screenrecording someone or otherwise gaining access to their computer without consent) or by some stupid moron ratting themselves out
I agree with the sentiment that VC in general shouldn't be banned considering the culture of the server, but being in a voicechat with the enemy mid-s2k would get you a dewhitelist even before that rule.
 

Blitz0012

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I agree with the sentiment that VC in general shouldn't be banned considering the culture of the server, but being in a voicechat with the enemy mid-s2k would get you a dewhitelist even before that rule.
I don't really see how being in VC with the enemy is such a huge problem. Especially if its with people you trust not to metabait, and people who you trust not to metagame things if they did accidentally metabait.
 
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Rabid

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I don't really see how being in VC with the enemy is such a problem. Especially if its with people you trust not to metabait, and people who you trust not to metagame things if they did accidentally metabait.

Mostly because you can't prove their coincidental metagame in the aftermath, and there've been cases where one side has sat in with the other, its been screenshotted and all hell has broken loose over accusations and other stuff.
 

Ron

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Mostly because you can't prove their coincidental metagame in the aftermath, and there've been cases where one side has sat in with the other, its been screenshotted and all hell has broken loose over accusations and other stuff.
[20:27:46] [LOOC] 'Brian': me and bubble were in VC and I lasered him immediately lol

This is exactly the case here.
 
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Simman102

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I don't really see how being in VC with the enemy is such a huge problem. Especially if its with people you trust not to metabait, and people who you trust not to metagame things if they did accidentally metabait.
How can a faction leader trust somebody who doesn't have the integrity to recognise that this is an inherently wrong thing to do?
 
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Blitz0012

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Mostly because you can't prove their coincidental metagame in the aftermath, and there've been cases where one side has sat in with the other, its been screenshotted and all hell has broken loose over accusations and other stuff.
I suppose, I get that. Given this is a first-time for this iteration though, I feel it is a bit of an over-reaction. Especially for the guy who's a cop main and he's not done anything against the rules.
 
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