Denied Eddie Jay Westgrin's PK Appeal

[DormNes]

Your Steam Name: Theres a Smiper (Dormniess)
Your Steam ID: DormNes / 76561198359325598

Character Name: Eddie Jay Westgrin
Member of staff who banned your character: @Simman102
Character/Player who carried out the PK (If known): @constantdisplay /William Foster, @Coldflame /Lucian Davies

Describe how your character died:
Ed went to the bar to show his support and just grab a beer. Lucian had Sergeant Gallagher talk with Ed about the torn-down ads. Those ads were old, blah, blah, blah. And I didn't tear anything down post-meeting. I complied with what they asked me to do. After Gallagher leaves, Lucian asks Ed if he wants to talk fully in the back. Ed decides, Yeah, we did this before; what could go wrong? Maybe this time it'll be a bit more of an honest talk. They talk a little. Will comes into the back, and Lucian pulls out a machete and tells Ed to get down on his knees and put his hands behind his back. Ed was confused but complied immediately. Lucian asks him if he was talking to a cop and what he told him. Ed complied again because why would he lie if he had a machete to his neck? Then, after telling Lucian, I expected more questions, but instead, Lucian just decided to kill Ed. Ed realized that and dropped to avoid the death blow. Then he catches one on the arm; he's getting hit in the head. But then Ed managed to kick into fight or flight. He chooses to fight. He crawled to Will's leg to try and bite him. Will doesn't react; he just shrugged the bite off like it was absolutely nothing. Even if the bite didn't penetrate his pants, the bite would still would have been something. Then Lucian went in for another swing at Ed's neck. Ed feels the vibrations because he's bald, and that is a real thing that bald people can feel in the air. So he ducks down to let Will take the blow. But I guess that swing JUST didn't happen or something, and then the admin went something like, Oh, this is getting silly, stop stalling. Instead of legitimately trying to RP my character's death. Then Ed just dies like a dog.

I don't know, it just feels weird to me because, first, I'm not given any information on what is about to occur, a chance to get out, or a hint about Lucian's intentions (unless he's a damn fine poker player). I would like to still have the ability to make MY own chance by noticing things in the environment by being TOLD through ROLEPLAY. It was, in all honesty, a shameless railroaded death. The lack of developed /mes and /its ruined the experience. Then, secondly, I comply with everything they ask of me, instead of getting some leeway or some more RP out of it. I'm immediately killed. And told to stop stalling OOC. God forbid, I want to RP my character's last moments. I mean, I'm not asking for this situation to get completely VOIDED or anything, that would be stupid. But I would like to be NOT dead in the FIRST week of the new iteration because of being a rat (I was never notified that there were PK risks with it; common sense applies, but I wasn't WILLINGLY brought into it; I was forced into it, not even on a terminal charge, just randomly through finding a hole in the Combine's impenetrable walls and catching the eye of a cop who thought I could be of some use, and I felt like after ALF tried to get me beat or killed, I took the deal). I could settle for brain damage or a grievous injury(ies), and it'd have the same effect. Ed would be out of the picture for a considerable amount of time. Hell, he might even be unaware of the events, given how finicky brain damage is. I could list a variety of options that I am entirely willing to rp it, I've gone 3 weeks just being stuck in bed, unable to do anything, I can do it AGAIN.

Why do you believe your PK is invalid?:

I complied with everything they wanted, and I feel like it's unfair to me for that to be ignored, and even then, anytime I tried to harm them, it was borderline ignored. I got screamed at for 'stalling' I was under the impression that I was supposed to role-play and act out my character, as you could imagine a person who is obese could probably take a lot more punishment to the body than the average male. I don't believe my attackers would have had such precision to hit exclusively headshots on Ed, In all honesty, William was obviously rattled, and Ed was prone against him. The angle he'd have on Ed would likely be exclusively torso hits; he had a baseball bat, which requires a large range of motion. Lucian was to Ed's side; hitting the head of a large man consistently while he's rolling around on the floor isn't easy; that's just me explaining the certain elements that were fudged. I mean, the whole engagement was only a couple minutes long, at the most, and the entire thing summed up to a nothing burger. Just a rushed, unsatisfactory death. It just felt like I died to die. Rather than for the sake of legitimate RP for everyone. I PERSONALLY (not dictating others's RP) make it a sort of rule to not kill people without their consent or a damn fine reason because otherwise, it ruins the fun for everyone. Forcing it down someone's throat is boring and almost always makes the receiving party upset. Also, just a small tidbit Will ALMOST COMPLETELY IGNORED Ed biting his leg down, which would most definitely be something important if an officer spotted it. (Most people don't have bite marks on their legs.) If you really want to get into the nitty gritty, a good mortician (a corpse inspector) could spot the blood and skin on Ed's teeth and use that to figure SOMETHING out. At least an injury of some kind would have been nice. Another small rant Ed tried to duck under the horizontal swing from Lucian; from the angle Lucian would have been swinging, it's entirely possible for the blade to glance off Ed's head. EVEN after making contact with Ed's skull and potentially going into Will, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, that fight was powergamed, despite using a P2L playstyle as opposed to rolling. That fight was an uphill battle for Ed. I don't want him to win and walk out unscathed, something more satisfying than a one-sided murder would be nice. If you want examples of powergaming, try when he first drops down to the ground to avoid the machete hit, they don't roleplay missing their shot and maybe hitting something around them or need to recooperate from that, I mean just "Lucian Davies swings the blade back quickly, square at Ed's neck. Ed ducked down immediately. Like down to his belly. [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] goes in with the bat, aiming straight for his face. Ed tore some back sowning. Lucian Davies is quick to hack down at the now-prone Ed. Ed TRIED to roll and got slash to the left arm. And the hit to the back of a head. Lucian Davies is quick to pull back, swinging down again- and again. Ed felt his arm almost seperating. He screamed out. [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] grits his teeth, hitting him on the head. Trying to end this quickly." There was no down-time, just immediate back to the slashing and hitting. Couldn't pause the slashing to have like Lucian noticed Ed dropped down to the ground as he went to slash and ended up hitting the table? Or Will went to hit his head and over struck so he ended up hitting and the wall and then looked down to strike his back or the back of his head? It happens a few times in the fight. There's no recoil, there's not taking a breath or getting weary from hitting wildly and trying to get this guy to go down. That doesn't work for you? How about "swings the [blade] back quickly, square at Ed's neck." Oh, nice. The guy must be a baseball player or something to line up a hit that square. I mean, a guy flopping around, biting another guy's leg, is going to get hit dead on the neck by this guy. Slight deter from the power game discussion, but I can say with almost all certainty that there was no injuryRP after the death for that bite wound. The "reaction" I got from that bite? "grimaced." That's it. If I was hit with the bat and did a /me saying "Ed grimaced at the hit" nothing else, I'd be yelled at again. Back to power gaming: "grits his teeth, hitting him on the head" a lot of certainty for a P2L situation, which I assumed it was given nobody asked which to do. I'm just going to quote Sil's Băgăreţ PK appeal here "The injuries and long-lasting effects, that stuff's cool, but ending my RP and taking me out of the picture (especially after things really just started to get going for me) isn't really fun for anyone other than the few who really violently wanted me dead dead." to sum it up.

Date of occurrence: 4/5/2024
Evidence (screenshots, logs):
I'm just gonna paste the portion of the log from just about the start of it to the last part. You guys can cross check if you like but it's all the same.
(20:26:38) Lucian Davies says "Yeah. Stack of tokens to forget this shit."
(20:26:41) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Lucy, I promised that I wouldn't no more shit."
(20:26:42) *** [Standing at a solid 5'10, the man bef...] was shoved against the wall like a fucking ragdoll
(20:26:45) *** Lucian Davies sighs.
(20:26:49) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "I don't need to be paid."
(20:26:58) *** Ed took a sip from his beer.
(20:26:58) ***** [A large monstrosity of flesh, it appe...] runs past the SLAM wielding maniac, for a collision course with the soldier!
(20:27:01) Lucian Davies says "Can we just talk this out one more time? Out back? I'll tell you the full truth this time."
(20:27:10) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Will stays out this time."
(20:27:14) *** [A Greek woman of average stature with...] is out cold. She does not respond.
(20:27:16) *** Ed got off the chair.
(20:27:16) Lucian Davies says "Sure."
(20:27:30) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "You first."
(20:27:34) Lucian Davies says "Watch the front, Will."
(20:27:48) *** Ed leaned on the kitchen table like last time.
(20:27:54) Lucian Davies says "So. Let's just run this whole thing through from the start?"
(20:27:59) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Sure."
(20:28:04) Lucian Davies says "When's the first time you had issues?"
(20:28:04) *** Ed took another drink from his beer.
(20:28:13) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "It was during a workshift."
(20:28:16) The Red Crusader has connected to the server.
(20:28:16) *** Lucian Davies nods
(20:28:21) The creature slams into the soldier, it receives a proper peppering but isn't down just yet. The soldier is sent down hard on his ass, with the knife wielding man barely managing to get a slash on it.
(20:28:30) It continues down the road, heading towards the apartment block.
(20:28:34) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] looks at the main doors with a worried expression.
(20:28:45) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Me, Zoey, and Foster were helping clear out the hospital of rubble after those two big zombies got blown up in the front."
(20:29:15) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "And uh."
(20:29:17) Lucian Davies says "Uh-huh."
(20:29:19) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "As we worked."
(20:29:28) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Zoey started calling me 'Special Ed'."
(20:29:31) Lucian Davies says "Rude."
(20:29:58) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Cause trying to lift a fucking ton peice of a rubble by myself was too much and I wanted to lift it with someone else using the shovels for the leverage."
(20:30:09) *** Lucian Davies nods
(20:30:11) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "She didn't want to, bla bla bla."
(20:30:18) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Foster ends up picking it up by himself somehow."
(20:30:31) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "After complaining the first time trying to pick it up."
(20:30:36) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Like..."
(20:30:39) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "OOO my back."
(20:30:40) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Ooo my hips."
(20:30:44) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Oh god I'm old."
(20:30:50) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Heh."
(20:30:52) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Ehh..."
(20:31:10) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Then those masks showed up and wanted to search us over for any stolen tools."
(20:31:25) Lucian Davies says "This when you ratted on Zoey?"
(20:31:32) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Ratted on Zoey?"
(20:31:37) Lucian Davies says "As she tells it."
(20:31:42) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "And Foster I assume."
(20:31:45) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Well, Zoey..."
(20:31:51) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Ratted on Jin first."
(20:31:58) i will eat a rock has disconnected from the server.
(20:32:02) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "They had some deal, I was there but I didn't really pay attention."
(20:32:11) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "She went-"
(20:32:20) *** Lucian Davies steps forwards, quickly putting a hand over Ed's mouth.
(20:32:22) *** There's shuffling, as the man walks through the doorway, bat in hand.
(20:32:25) Lucian Davies says "Noise and you're finished."
(20:32:36) *** Ed felt thehand go over his hand.
(20:32:39) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] quickly shuts the door.
(20:32:40) *** Ed took a few deep breaths.
(20:32:46) Lucian Davies says "Nod if you're going to be quiet."
(20:32:50) *** Ed nodded.
(20:33:02) *** Lucian Davies stepped away cautiously, reaching into his bag and grabbing the handle of a long blade.
(20:33:15) *** Ed looked down at the blade.
(20:33:20) Lucian Davies says "You're in trouble."
(20:33:30) Lucian Davies says "We tried to resolve this nicely. Now it's not so nicely."
(20:33:30) ramen has disconnected from the server.
(20:33:37) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] keeps an eye on the man, bat in hand. Jittery.
(20:33:41) UkuP has disconnected from the server.
(20:33:41) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Wh- what are you gonna do to me?"
(20:34:04) Lucian Davies says "You've been ratting on us, haven't you? How can we trust you won't just run straight to the cops after getting a warning?"
(20:34:20) Lucian Davies says "Knees. Hand behind your back. Plea your case."
(20:34:25) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Oh we're talking about talking to the cops now."
(20:34:31) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Heheh."
(20:34:33) Lucian Davies says "I'm asking the questions here."
(20:34:36) [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] says "We've tried talking, everything. And you're still tearing down shit, trying to cause problems."
(20:34:44) Lucian Davies says "This is your last chance to get away alive."
(20:34:55) *** Lucian Davies steps forward, setting the tip of the machete against Ed's neck.
(20:34:58) [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] says "You give us a *sure-fire* fucking guarantee."
(20:35:10) *** Ed got down on his knees and his hands behind his back.
(20:35:18) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Alright..."
(20:35:22) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "You got me where you want me."
(20:35:22) Lucian Davies says "You better swear on whatever god you have."
(20:35:29) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "What's your questions?"
(20:35:34) Lucian Davies says "Why did you rat on us?"
(20:35:45) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] looks down, then looks away momentarily.
(20:35:48) ramen has connected to the server.
(20:35:53) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Zoey... named me first."
(20:36:00) *** Lucian Davies sighs, listening to the same story again.
(20:36:02) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "I may have looked at her."
(20:36:04) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "BUT."
(20:36:04) [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] says "*Enough* about Zoey."
(20:36:08) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "I-"
(20:36:12) [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] says "What else have you told the cops? Own up."
(20:36:15) *** Ed took a deep breath.
(20:36:21) [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] says "We know you've been chatting shit."
(20:36:27) Lucian Davies says "Tell us what you told them."
(20:36:38) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Uh... that you're ALF."
(20:36:46) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "That this bar is where you hold these meetings."
(20:36:48) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "That uh."
(20:36:57) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "You threatened me at the end of that meeting."
(20:37:02) *** Lucian Davies takes the blade back with a sigh, turning slightly to will and speaking softly.
(20:37:10) Lucian Davies says "Sorry, Will. There's no way this guy walks."
(20:37:16) *** Ed took a deep breath.
(20:37:18) *** Lucian Davies swings the blad back quickly, square at Ed's neck.
(20:37:26) *** Ed ducked down immediately.
(20:37:38) *** Like down to his belly.
(20:37:39) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] goes in with the bat, aiming straight for his face.
(20:37:46) *** Ed tore some back sowning.
(20:37:54) *** Lucian Davies is quick to hack down at the now-prone Ed.
(20:37:54) *** Ed rolled to his right to avoid the hit.
(20:38:03) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: alright maybe that not
(20:38:25) *** Ed TRIED to roll and got slash to the left arm. And the hit to the back of a head.
(20:38:38) *** Lucian Davies is quick to pull back, swinging down again- and again.
(20:38:52) *** Ed felt his arm almost seperating. He screamed out.
(20:39:04) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] grits his teeth, hitting him on the head. Trying to end this quickly.
(20:39:17) *** Ed got more into a crawl and grabbed Will's leg.
(20:39:21) *** Ed bit down hard.
(20:39:38) *** Lucian Davies takes another swing at Ed as he's distracted and wounded, again going for the neck- he intends to finish the job.
(20:39:53) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] grimaced - he kept hitting the man's head with the end of the bat, until he stopped moving.
(20:40:04) *** Or at least- tried to.
(20:40:27) *** Ed felt the breeze of the swing. Ed dropped his head down fast to let Lucian hit Will's leg.
(20:40:31) [LOOC] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: Alright, this is getting a bit silly. I understand you're not willing to let go easily but with the position you're in, this is borderline stalling.
(20:40:54) [LOOC] William Foster: yeah, sorry man
(20:40:56) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: I mean, they've slashed my arm and hit my head a few times
(20:41:16) [LOOC] Lucian Davies: youre on the ground getting hacked to death by two people i cant lie
(20:41:21) Big_Dumb_Brute has disconnected from the server.
(20:41:31) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: I crawled forward to grab and bit this guy's leg.
(20:41:36) [LOOC] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: I won't dictate how to roleplay, but please wrap this up within a reasonable timeframe. You're putting them at risk by OOCly dragging it out at this point.
(20:41:48) [LOOC] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: Back IC please.
(20:42:12) *** So yea, Ed moved himself to let Foster get slashed in the leg.
(20:42:16) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] keeps thwacking the end of the bat against the parts of Ed he can see, sweating - trying to get it over with.
(20:42:45) *** Ed could feel his back getting beaten, his sewn up back getting less and less sown.
(20:42:51) *** Ed screamed.
(20:43:12) *** Lucian Davies takes another swing at Ed's back.
(20:43:34) *** Ed felt his back get hacked into. He screamed even louder.
(20:43:36) *** [Middle aged man, younger than he look...] kept hitting the guy.
(20:43:44) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: so will doesnt get hit
(20:43:47) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: great
(20:43:51) [PM] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura -> Eddie Jay Westgrin: would you like a death /me?
(20:43:57) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: no
(20:44:01) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: im done
(20:44:09) [PM] Eddie Jay Westgrin -> Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: nope
(20:44:32) [PM] Eddie Jay Westgrin -> Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: i dont like that will didn't get slashed in the leg and he got to keep beating me but whatever
(20:44:33) Agress1veJo has connected to the server.
(20:44:43) [PM] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura -> Eddie Jay Westgrin: Alright. I don't know the details of the situation, but as usual you'll be PK'd. You're entitled to an appeal at https://nebulous.cloud/forums/permanent-kill-appeals.670/ if you'd like.
(20:44:52) [PM] Eddie Jay Westgrin -> Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: thank you
(20:44:58) [PM] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura -> Eddie Jay Westgrin: good luck
(20:47:59) [PM] Teddy Orion-Uranus Reed -> Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: which admin are you so i can put it in the pk part 'Member of staff who banned your character:'
(20:48:11) [PM] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura -> Teddy Orion-Uranus Reed: I'm Simman102 on the forums
(20:48:16) Kiko has connected to the server.
(20:49:05) [PM] Teddy Orion-Uranus Reed -> Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: thank you

Any other parties involved: N/A.

Misc details: They cut me up and put me in a trash bag. I suppose they must have dismembered my corpse or dissolved the entirety of my remains except for the bones, given that CPs investigating legitimately could not make out a single detail; skin, race, ANYTHING. My source of this information was IC, so the officer COULD have been limiting information for the sake of an investigation, but this was said: [An officer of the civil protection, s...] says "<:: Although we did find a couple of trash bags with humans remain in them right now. Couldn't even recognize the color of the skin though..." Now, if there was an explanation like burning, which would have been the fastest method, would it not have made a smell? Unless these guys have access to highly acidic liquids that literally melt the skin off the bone. Maybe they cut specifically my head off, but they must have skinned it completely to leave no trace of skin or anything recognizable, which of course would take longer than what? Five minutes? This is an after-the-fact criticism, but I simply find this kind of RP sloppy, and honestly, it's the kind of amateur hour RP that I'd expect from a new player, not an experienced player that's been on the server for a LONG time. I don't like criticizing people's RPing methods, but this is a blatantly underdeveloped slop that I'm supposed to roll with. That being said, I don't hold ill will towards the admin, and the roleplayers, it isn't anything super personal, but if I think something feels off or unfair. Well, then I'm gonna appeal it. And I'm not gonna hold back. (Still love you guys).

 

[constantdisplay]

hi

most of this just seems like you're annoyed about how you died and not why you died, no offense. its also a total wall of text, so im just picking and choosing bits here (pls shorten your tangents). from what ive read, theres basically nothing here about the actual validity of the pk. you admitted to us yourself that you told cops (whether true or not) that we were ALF, that we held our meetings at the bar, and that we threatened you - which on its own is enough. before this, you also tore down posters for our bar (without being told too by anyone), gave us vague threats and said you "knew what we were doing and to stop acting dumb" (to william, specifically) - and ratted on zoey earlier in the week. think this covers at least 2 reasons for a valid pk

Spoiler: pre-combat logs where he admits to it

(01:32:11) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "She went-"
(01:32:21) *** Lucian Davies steps forwards, quickly putting a hand over Ed's mouth.
(01:32:22) *** There's shuffling, as the man walks through the doorway, bat in hand.
(01:32:25) Lucian Davies says "Noise and you're finished."
(01:32:36) *** Ed felt thehand go over his hand.
(01:32:40) *** William Foster quickly shuts the door.
(01:32:40) *** Ed took a few deep breaths.
(01:32:46) Lucian Davies says "Nod if you're going to be quiet."
(01:32:50) *** Ed nodded.
(01:33:02) *** Lucian Davies stepped away cautiously, reaching into his bag and grabbing the handle of a long blade.
(01:33:15) *** Ed looked down at the blade.
(01:33:20) Lucian Davies says "You're in trouble."
(01:33:30) Lucian Davies says "We tried to resolve this nicely. Now it's not so nicely."
(01:33:37) *** William Foster keeps an eye on the man, bat in hand. Jittery.
(01:33:41) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Wh- what are you gonna do to me?"
(01:34:04) Lucian Davies says "You've been ratting on us, haven't you? How can we trust you won't just run straight to the cops after getting a warning?"
(01:34:20) Lucian Davies says "Knees. Hand behind your back. Plea your case."
(01:34:25) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Oh we're talking about talking to the cops now."
(01:34:32) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Heheh."
(01:34:33) Lucian Davies says "I'm asking the questions here."
(01:34:36) William Foster says "We've tried talking, everything. And you're still tearing down shit, trying to cause problems."
(01:34:44) Lucian Davies says "This is your last chance to get away alive."
(01:34:55) *** Lucian Davies steps forward, setting the tip of the machete against Ed's neck.
(01:34:58) William Foster says "You give us a *sure-fire* fucking guarantee."
(01:35:10) *** Ed got down on his knees and his hands behind his back.
(01:35:18) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Alright..."
(01:35:22) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "You got me where you want me."
(01:35:22) Lucian Davies says "You better swear on whatever god you have."
(01:35:30) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "What's your questions?"
(01:35:34) Lucian Davies says "Why did you rat on us?"
(01:35:45) *** William Foster looks down, then looks away momentarily.
(01:35:54) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Zoey... named me first."
(01:36:01) *** Lucian Davies sighs, listening to the same story again.
(01:36:03) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "I may have looked at her."
(01:36:04) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "BUT."
(01:36:05) William Foster says "*Enough* about Zoey."
(01:36:08) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "I-"
(01:36:13) William Foster says "What else have you told the cops? Own up."
(01:36:15) *** Ed took a deep breath.
(01:36:21) William Foster says "We know you've been chatting shit."
(01:36:28) Lucian Davies says "Tell us what you told them."
(01:36:38) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Uh... that you're ALF."
(01:36:47) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "That this bar is where you hold these meetings."
(01:36:48) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "That uh."
(01:36:57) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "You threatened me at the end of that meeting."
(01:37:02) *** Lucian Davies takes the blade back with a sigh, turning slightly to will and speaking softly.
(01:37:11) Lucian Davies says "Sorry, Will. There's no way this guy walks."

we tried to give you an out in this conversation but you immediately admitted to what you did - and it would of been risky to keep you alive knowing ur character. we tried to drag this out for as long as possible before killing you. i specifically didnt want too ic and ooc, which is why we tried peacekeeping first - and @Coldflame directly gave you death threats ic at least once or twice. we also tried to probe ic how comfortable you were with being around us on your own, and you didnt seem to suspect anything - going into a room alone with us is on you. we'd previously planned for the backroom to be the place for an ambush, and when we got an opportunity we took it (getting our weapons when you and gallagher were talking). onto the complaints about the combat:

EVEN after making contact with Ed's skull and potentially going into Will, without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, that fight was powergamed, despite using a P2L playstyle as opposed to rolling. That fight was an uphill battle for Ed.

i dont see how ignoring fearrp and immediately trying to dodge every hit + dropping prone to the ground from being on your knees with your hands behind your head (when being obese is a big part of your character apparently) is playing to lose. ik its rough but we would of given you more leeway and developed /me's if you accepted what was happening

He crawled to Will's leg to try and bite him. Will doesn't react; he just shrugged the bite off like it was absolutely nothing.

did react, but was already on edge trying to get through the situation - which i tried showed through my /me's. i wasnt trying to powergame, but realistically it was a 2 men with melee against 1 obese guy on the ground and it didnt seem like you were going to stop stalling (@Simman102 had to warn you). again, we would of went for a bit more if you didnt try to ace the situation

Spoiler: some of the flavour /me text

(01:33:37) *** William Foster keeps an eye on the man, bat in hand. Jittery.

(01:39:05) *** William Foster grits his teeth, hitting him on the head. Trying to end this quickly.

(01:39:17) *** Ed got more into a crawl and grabbed Will's leg.
(01:39:21) *** Ed bit down hard.
(01:39:39) *** Lucian Davies takes another swing at Ed as he's distracted and wounded, again going for the neck- he intends to finish the job.
(01:39:53) *** William Foster grimaced - he kept hitting the man's head with the end of the bat, until he stopped moving.
(01:40:04) *** Or at least- tried to.

(01:42:16) *** William Foster keeps thwacking the end of the bat against the parts of Ed he can see, sweating - trying to get it over with.

I suppose they must have dismembered my corpse or dissolved the entirety of my remains except for the bones, given that CPs investigating legitimately could not make out a single detail; skin, race, ANYTHING. My source of this information was IC, so the officer COULD have been limiting information for the sake of an investigation, but this was said: [An officer of the civil protection, s...] says "<:: Although we did find a couple of trash bags with humans remain in them right now. Couldn't even recognize the color of the skin though..."

just to note, think the cop was just making up details for flavour here (or was lying, your pick). we didnt dissolve anything, you were just dismembered. skin color/features should still be visible

this all im gonna put here, because im pretty sure its clear that this was valid. admittedly, we should of waited for you stop typing before we killed you - but didnt wanna stall for any longer for obvious reasons - and it seemed like the fight was going nowhere. if pk staff need a video and full log of my pov i can send it over discord

also, you namedropped my char in the discord immediately after the pk, which i think is in pretty bad taste. ive got nothing against you ooc even if ive joked about mama westgrin one too many times (no proof here because the early days discord still doesnt have a logging bot for some reason, but @Laura can testify)

 

[Gyarik]

They cut me up and put me in a trash bag. I suppose they must have dismembered my corpse or dissolved the entirety of my remains except for the bones, given that CPs investigating legitimately could not make out a single detail; skin, race, ANYTHING. My source of this information was IC, so the officer COULD have been limiting information for the sake of an investigation

I was one of the PA on scene, the reason we did not go further with details is due to the fact this was a player PK. Namedropping is generally frowned upon unless we're 100% sure this is not going to get an appeal (or a possible appeal gets denied)

I don't have a say on the appeal other than this, however know that we've got an IC fallback to "recognize" your character in case the appeal doesn't get a pass (which won't result in an outright retcon).

Good luck with the appeal, though!

 

[PepicWalrus]

What was used to dissolve the body, where was it procured ICly? I don't think anything innately on the map would do that. Definitely not the sewer sludge.

 

[fofa]

What was used to dissolve the body, where was it procured ICly? I don't think anything innately on the map would do that. Definitely not the sewer sludge.

just to note, think the cop was just making up details for flavour here (or was lying, your pick). we didnt dissolve anything, you were just dismembered. skin color/features should still be visible

 

[Raiden]

I'm not a pk manager or admin but just wanna say -

Ed feels the vibrations because he's bald, and that is a real thing that bald people can feel in the air.

without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, that fight was powergamed, despite using a P2L playstyle as opposed to rolling.

I don't think you can claim to have been powergamed whilst in the same breath claiming to have some sixth sense as a result of baldness.

you admitted to us yourself that you told cops (whether true or not) that we were ALF, that we held our meetings at the bar, and that we threatened you - which on its own is enough.

As per server ruleset:

■ We strongly encourage keeping PKs as a last resort for all players. This applies to all sides of the server. Consider your fellow players and aim for creative resolutions to conflict.

Was there much consideration into that point?
I get that you obviously want to protect your interests and someone reporting you to whoever undermines your groups safety - but in your mind was there no possibility of an alternative route to get this point across by perhaps, beating the fuck out of the guy or using some other scare tactic to try and prevent him from doing what he was doing?

A last resort is a last resort and I think there would have been an opportunity here to set a statement both Ed himself and on others who might look to undermine/report you for whatever reason should you have chosen a less final route.

 

[Coldflame]

Was there much consideration into that point?
I get that you obviously want to protect your interests and someone reporting you to whoever undermines your groups safety - but in your mind was there no possibility of an alternative route to get this point across by perhaps, beating the fuck out of the guy or using some other scare tactic to try and prevent him from doing what he was doing?

A last resort is a last resort and I think there would have been an opportunity here to set a statement both Ed himself and on others who might look to undermine/report you for whatever reason should you have chosen a less final route

we had like 3 meetings with him telling him to stop, including multiple death threats, and he made it abundantly clear in every case that his character is apparently completely fearless and willing to die for the cause of ratting.

beating him or warning him with weapons clearly wasn't going to work and letting him walk after seeing something actionable like that was an unacceptable risk. if ed had expressed any level of fear at the situation at any point or even been remotely receptive to de-escalation it might've gone a different way

 

[constantdisplay]

I get that you obviously want to protect your interests and someone reporting you to whoever undermines your groups safety - but in your mind was there no possibility of an alternative route to get this point across by perhaps, beating the fuck out of the guy or using some other scare tactic to try and prevent him from doing what he was doing?

we tried to give you an out in this conversation but you immediately admitted to what you did - and it would of been risky to keep you alive knowing ur character. we tried to drag this out for as long as possible before killing you. i specifically didnt want too ic and ooc, which is why we tried peacekeeping first - and @Coldflame directly gave you death threats ic at least once or twice.

dont want to say much else on this, but we tried to resolve it without violence first off, and he seemingly didnt stop trying to spread stuff about us at any point. knowing that he said what he said, leaving him alive would of been a big risk for everyone (basically, what @Coldflame said). ic'ly and ooc'ly it was a last resort (at least for my character) and we tried to rp as such afterwards

(23:39:36) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "You're an fucking moron. Just stay in your alleyway bar with your alleyway rebels, don't fuck with who I said not to fuck with."
(23:39:46) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "That's all I'm saying."
(23:40:11) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "I don't care how many layers of playing stupid you guys think you can play but it ain't working."
(23:40:26) Lucian Davies says "No layers. This is just nonsense."
(23:40:41) William Foster says "Ed- look. This stuff with Dutch, it's over- and this stuff here. We're going to stay in this corner. And continue to do what we do."
(23:40:49) William Foster says "Regardless of whatever you think we're actually doing. It's over."
(23:40:54) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "Good."
(23:41:01) Eddie Jay Westgrin says "That's all I wanted to hear."
(23:41:05) Lucian Davies says "Let me make this clear."
(23:41:06) William Foster says "Close your mouth, before you get us all fucked over. Me, Luc, Dutch, you. Everyone."
(23:41:20) Eddie Jay Westgrin whispers "They ain't gonna do shit."
(23:41:23) Lucian Davies says "If I ever hear the fucking name Eddie Westgrin again, we will have a BIG problem."
(23:41:24) Eddie Jay Westgrin whispers "It was me and me alone."
(23:41:35) Eddie Jay Westgrin whispers "Sure Luc."

also, can we just wait for actual pk staff to get here before anyone else chimes in, ty

 

[PepicWalrus]

Ed feels the vibrations because he's bald, and that is a real thing that bald people can feel in the air.

Y'know as someone with thinning hair I've been considering if I should full shave or not. This might of just convinced me to do so. That said I'd say this ability requires a char auth so gonna have to over-rule this one. (Anyone who tries to char auth this will be rejected)

 

[Simman102]

I'll comment on the technical side of things. One of the two staff members active when the request to oversee the situation was sent was running a mini-event and the other one had personal involvement with the situation and opted not to handle it, so I lent a hand.

he's getting hit in the head. But then Ed managed to kick into fight or flight. He chooses to fight.

I don't think this is reasonable. A full force baseball bat hit to the head is enough to cause lethal damage [the way they are constructed is enough to consider them illegal weapons in Poland, for instance], and the two people attacking you certainly were trying to kill you.

Ed feels the vibrations because he's bald, and that is a real thing that bald people can feel in the air. So he ducks down to let Will take the blow.

Without even delving into then technicalities of bald people superpowers, do you not find it a bit of a stretch that this supposed ability would be retained even after Ed tanked a baseball bat hit to the head? Surely he wouldn't be operating at 100% consciousness at that point?

So he ducks down to let Will take the blow.

I don't understand how Ed could "duck down" if he was already on the ground, which is the point at which I intervened.

then the admin went something like, Oh, this is getting silly, stop stalling. Instead of legitimately trying to RP my character's death.

What you have to understand is that the situation didn't exist in a void. The two people carrying out the execution were at constant risk of being discovered one way or another, and the time it was taking all three parties to write out the /mes is disproportionate to the time it takes other characters to walk around the city. And, just to clarify: I used the term "borderline stalling" and requested that you wrap the situation up within a reasonable timeframe, which the logs attest to.

(20:40:31) [LOOC] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: Alright, this is getting a bit silly. I understand you're not willing to let go easily but with the position you're in, this is borderline stalling.
(20:40:54) [LOOC] William Foster: yeah, sorry man
(20:40:56) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: I mean, they've slashed my arm and hit my head a few times
(20:41:16) [LOOC] Lucian Davies: youre on the ground getting hacked to death by two people i cant lie
(20:41:31) [LOOC] Eddie Jay Westgrin: I crawled forward to grab and bit this guy's leg.
(20:41:36) [LOOC] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: I won't dictate how to roleplay, but please wrap this up within a reasonable timeframe. You're putting them at risk by OOCly dragging it out at this point.
(20:41:48) [LOOC] Lt. Kayumi Nishimura: Back IC please.

And told to stop stalling OOC. God forbid, I want to RP my character's last moments. I mean, I'm not asking for this situation to get completely VOIDED or anything, that would be stupid.

I offered to teleport you back and allow you a death /me once you'd been killed mechanically, but you refused.
Regardless; if you're this dissatisfied with the execution of the scenario itself, I imagine @constantdisplay and @Coldflame would be willing to replay the scene in a more controlled environment (with the same outcome being preserved).

 

[Coldflame]

i'm open to a same outcome re-do


Edit: to be clear this would be on the condition of no 'dodging' melee attacks whilst prone using daredevil powers

 

[Alexander The Great]

Ed feels the vibrations because he's bald, and that is a real thing that bald people can feel in the air.

If u guys dont get the reference
here




also why is every murder in hl2rp a courtcase?
perhaps we should quit murder if we wish not become lawyers

 

[PepicWalrus]

If someone could, clarify who requested PK Auths, and who gave the PK Auth.

 

[Coldflame]

If someone could, clarify who requested PK Auths, and who gave the PK Auth.

@Grryn (zoey) got tenative PK auths from @Nathant18 the first time that Ed ratted on her after she told the group, though we decided to maybe try go a different way with it. he continued to rat after this

yesterday the opportunity to kill Ed opportunistically presented itself. i /helped and got oversight from @Simman102 as described above. ed had commited various more of the acts explicitly definited as PKable in rules since the initial tenative auths- and admitted to several of these acts in the moments before the ambush.

i'm in touch with everyone on the ALF side, i can privately provide evidence as needed

 

[Toriwarior30055]

Edit;

I'm going to unlock the post to give @DormNes a chance to respond. I realize I might have been too hasty given it hasn't even been 24 hours.

 

[DormNes]

Alright just so I have a word in right now. I am taking my time responding to these things, it may take a day, it may take two, but I want to make sure I am as through as possible. Just know that I am here, and I am writing.

 

[Toriwarior30055]

Just a reminder to only post if you're involved or if you have evidence or information to add.

 

[DormNes]

hi

most of this just seems like you're annoyed about how you died and not why you died, no offense. its also a total wall of text, so im just picking and choosing bits here (pls shorten your tangents).

Ah, cherry picking yes. I don't believe you should be able to criticize my points if you won't even read the entire thing.

theres basically nothing here about the actual validity of the pk.

Given that YOU guys unnecessarily started this conflict, you should understand that you consistently bullied and targeted Ed even before he tore your posters down (The catalyst that dug this rabbit hole) for whatever reason. In fact, Zoey started off by telling lies to CPs about what contraband was whose, she started the entire issue by blatantly lying about people, which can be played IC, but it really boils down to "make a ton of shit up, blame randoms, get mad when people don't want to be blamed and then ask an admin for PK auths" That’s really low and kind of disingenuous to ask an admin for PK auths after putting a character at risk just because. Additionally, I do not believe you took the proper steps to make this a PK, you gave me a singular warning, and then killed me when I was at your establishment causing no harm. A beating could have sufficed before PKing him, if it got to that point. It just feels in bad taste to mercilessly kill him when there was definitely other options on the table. It also most definitely robbed us of potentially more interesting RP. It feels as if there wasn't a real intention to roleplay out more than you guys being the DARK and GRITTY early-day bar rebels I feel (I mean, you literally decapitated Ed and put him in a trash bag).

we threatened you - which on its own is enough

Perhaps, though the only issue is, the threat was quite literally just TREAD lightly. The cops might not have even taken it into consideration but rather than trying to find out you rushed the job and killed him. There was a chance to do more but you didn't want to.

we tried to drag this out for as long as possible before killing you.

What? You tried to drag it out? You guys were trying to get it over quickly on an OOC level because of the whole "Oh what if someone walks in on us." So you rushed it and not only did you rush it, but you did a pretty lazy job at that.

i dont see how ignoring fearrp

when had I ignored fearRP? I legitimately complied with everything you said, unless I was supposed to just die?

immediately trying to dodge every hit

So... I defended myself?

if you accepted what was happening

You were upset that I didn't want my character to die instantaneously? In what a singular swing?

i wasn't trying to powergame

Your intentions did not match your actions, clearly.

it didn't seem like you were going to stop stalling

Correction: It didn't seem like I was going to die instantly, so you HAD to get your way.

 

[DormNes]

we had like 3 meetings with him telling him to stop, including multiple death threats, and he made it abundantly clear in every case that his character is apparently completely fearless and willing to die for the cause of ratting.

beating him or warning him with weapons clearly wasn't going to work and letting him walk after seeing something actionable like that was an unacceptable risk. if ed had expressed any level of fear at the situation at any point or even been remotely receptive to de-escalation it might've gone a different way

3 meetings? I do not know where you got that number, we've ever had a single legitimate meeting. Unless you're counting those talks on the streets where you walked up to me and randomly harassed me. The most you ever discussed with me was tearing down your posters, which hadn't even been happening after our original meeting, which was OOCly and ICly confusing. There weren't even any legitimate threats made in the street 'meetings'. Additionally, Ed was not 'fearless' he was clueless as to why he was being harassed daily about things he hadn't done while being subtly threatened. Your people started this conflict by trying to get Ed in trouble with the cops. Pinning things on him, insulting him relentlessly. This was just a very poorly played out conflict.

 

[DormNes]

I'll comment on the technical side of things. One of the two staff members active when the request to oversee the situation was sent was running a mini-event and the other one had personal involvement with the situation and opted not to handle it, so I lent a hand.

I don't think this is reasonable. A full force baseball bat hit to the head is enough to cause lethal damage [the way they are constructed is enough to consider them illegal weapons in Poland, for instance], and the two people attacking you certainly were trying to kill you.

Sure, full force yeah, but note, Ed is directly below this guy, and with the speed of the event, would this guy reasonably be able to pull the bat back and down into Ed's head in both the given space and time? If the hit was charged or prepared, rather than just "goes in with the bat" leaving quite a lot to the imagination.

Without even delving into then technicalities of bald people superpowers, do you not find it a bit of a stretch that this supposed ability would be retained even after Ed tanked a baseball bat hit to the head? Surely he wouldn't be operating at 100% consciousness at that point?

I hadn't meant it as in daredevil powers, but more as if Ed had felt the whoosh of the swing getting nearer to his body, I also wanted to do a bit more with that /me, but I was swarmed by multiple /mes that I could barely react to. Everyone was throwing out underdeveloped slop that was rushed and lazy, forgetting OOC risk for a moment, genuinely is "kept hitting the guy" really a /me you want to see for the death of a character? Is that the quality of RP you support? That is in all honestly a lazy /me that should be punished by a more developed action.

I don't understand how Ed could "duck down" if he was already on the ground, which is the point at which I intervened.

Duck as in, tuck his head down, he was biting Will's ankle, he would have brought his face closer to the floor. Again, a product of being hit with multiple /mes that I can't possibly be expected to react to, when they're already writing a new action instantly after they post the previous one.

What you have to understand is that the situation didn't exist in a void. The two people carrying out the execution were at constant risk of being discovered one way or another, and the time it was taking all three parties to write out the /mes is disproportionate to the time it takes other characters to walk around the city. And, just to clarify: I used the term "borderline stalling" and requested that you wrap the situation up within a reasonable timeframe, which the logs attest to.

You're right, the time to do /mes is disproportionate from walking around, but that shouldn't excuse laziness or a rushed mess that a person who is losing their main character is supposed to roll with, if that's the case, then we should really reconsider how 'serious' we are. Some fights aren't quick, Ed is a big dude, hypothetically, what if I wanted Ed to suffer? Some people are built and wired differently, an example being pain tolerance, some MMA fighters can eat headshots all day without going down, which is an inherent bonus that a person cannot train for.

I offered to teleport you back and allow you a death /me once you'd been killed mechanically, but you refused.
Regardless; if you're this dissatisfied with the execution of the scenario itself, I imagine @constantdisplay and @Coldflame would be willing to replay the scene in a more controlled environment (with the same outcome being preserved).

The matter of the fact is, this type of RP shouldn't be allowed regardless, in an ideal world (which we are not in) we wouldn't have to have to redo these scenes because people wanted to secure their victory before revising it, it opens up a 'shoot first, ask questions later' can of worms that I personally do not like, and in all honesty, a staff member should also despise a type of RP that encourages players to do a half-assed job the first time, just to fix it later.

Is this not a risk they're willing to take by murdering a man in the back of their publicly available bar? I mean, that's just poor staffing on your part, no offense. Disallowing me from realistically RPing a combat scene where death is likely? If they wanted to mitigate risk factors, they would have taken him elsewhere. Additionally, they cleaned up all the blood from slashing, whacking, and decapitating Ed in a matter of minutes (There would be a LOT of blood from this), they seemed to be wearing the same clothes today as when they killed me, have they been walking around in bloodstained clothes without mentioning it in their description? What did they use to clean the scene? A mop? Blood is difficult to lift out of material. Another couple of examples of this poorly done, rushed RP. If we are favoring rushed PK scenarios then we will have more PK appeals just like this, unsatisfying ends to good characters. Most especially if rolls are not used, if they rolled and Ed got bad luck, fine, that's how the dice fall. But in this scenario, it makes me wonder if my attackers intentionally spammed attacks knowing full well that I couldn't react. This kind of rushed, garbage RP that is expected of Willard, not a server such as Nebulous. They forced the outcome, that is all.