News Preview/Discussion - WW3RP: STASILAND

[Dallas]

soviets would steamroll it just for causing the winter war alone

when you throw in the strategic advances why wouldn't they

air power, not to mention paras, would have paralysed the fins if the attack came swiftly enough

winter war was a fluke based on a number of factors that could not be reasonably repeated

 

['77 East]

air power, not to mention paras, would have paralysed the fins if the attack came swiftly enough

winter war was a fluke based on a number of factors that could not be reasonably repeated

you can put 30,000 men on skis and give them rifles, but that won't win you a war when 5,000,000 men are able to take your cities

 

[Black Rain (1989)]

winter war was a fluke based on a number of factors that could not be reasonably repeated

when you finally catch that laplander shouting "Karjala on Suomi" across the border

It's not the Red Army in 1939 anymore, its the Soviet Armed Forces at the peak of its power.

Plus, its nicer to have more countries in the origin guide - to allow my freedom. (Within reason)

 

[Laura]

implying finland wouldnt get its capital captured on day one and fold up like a fucking piece of ikea furniture

also implying the soviets, needing to eliminate NATO norway, would stop to consider the ramifications of just eliminating a potential roadblock like finland

Implying that i implyied that we would just have a another Winter War.
No.
I'm implying that from the Pre-Cold War
And During the Cold War, the likelyhood of Soviets just invading Finland for fucks of it is dumb as fuck.
From the politics and the relationships between the two countries. I don't see how Finland would be invaded, but Yugoslavia, Switzerland and Albania don't is dumb.

Just saying that ''Lol, They are in the way so why wouldn't they invade'' is just dumb and overlooking everything going on in that time Politics between the two countries..

You are just being dick-ish at this point mate.

Also
Here's a good read on the topic of Finland during the Cold War.
http://www.finland.lv/public/default.aspx?contentid=128377&nodeid=38434&contentlan=2&culture=en-US

 

[Con the god of fire]

soviets would steamroll it for causing the winter war and the possibility of parisian resistance in the future

when you throw in the strategic advances why wouldn't they

Steamrolling finland won't fix that shame that was the winter war, nothing will.
Though while on topic, winter war was aesthetic as all fuck.

 

[Dallas]

Implying that i implyied that we would just have a another Winter War.
No.
I'm implying that from the Pre-Cold War
And During the Cold War, the likelyhood of Soviets just invading Finland for fucks of it is dumb as fuck.
From the politics and the relationships between the two countries. I don't see how Finland would be invaded, but Yugoslavia, Switzerland and Albania don't is dumb.

Just saying that ''Lol, They are in the way so why wouldn't they invade'' is just dumb and overlooking everything going on in that time Politics between the two countries..

You are just being dick-ish at this point mate.

Also
Here's a good read on the topic of Finland during the Cold War.
http://www.finland.lv/public/default.aspx?contentid=128377&nodeid=38434&contentlan=2&culture=en-US

the politics of the situation is transformed at this point and is not a good indicator of relations between the nations, nothing i am saying is dickish, i am just pointing out the likihood of soviet victory in the event of an invasion

of course there would be an active resistance, but the government itself would cease to operate and would need to leave the country

i didnt make the map, im just saying that finland isnt that big a deal

 

['77 East]

From the politics and the relationships between the two countries. I don't see how Finland would be invaded, but Yugoslavia, Switzerland and Albania don't is dumb.

• Soviets aren't fond of Tito but are cautious given his leadership.
• Switzerland is neutral yet if the Soviets invade it's going to drag a lot of otherwise-neutral countries with it given it's "safe haven" status, plus a lot of public infrastructure is rigged to blow up.
• Albania is run by a dictator on semi-friendly terms with the soviets and who vitrolently hates NATO. No reason to invade.

 

[Black Rain (1989)]

Implying that i implyied that we would just have a another Winter War.
No.
I'm implying that from the Pre-Cold War
And During the Cold War, the likelyhood of Soviets just invading Finland for fucks of it is dumb as fuck.
From the politics and the relationships between the two countries. I don't see how Finland would be invaded, but Yugoslavia, Switzerland and Albania don't is dumb.

Just saying that ''Lol, They are in the way so why wouldn't they invade'' is just dumb and overlooking everything going on in that time Politics between the two countries..

You are just being dick-ish at this point mate.

Also
Here's a good read on the topic of Finland during the Cold War.
http://www.finland.lv/public/default.aspx?contentid=128377&nodeid=38434&contentlan=2&culture=en-US

I don't think its worth getting this upset over having your country getting invaded in some Roleplay lore.

It's ultimately an excuse to allow more people to have a variety of characters, yet still be within reason. It doesn't make sense for the Soviets to have so successfully invaded Western Europe, but here we are suspending our disbelief to a reasonable extent for the sake of an interesting and varied setting.

An invasion of Finland seems more reasonable to me than an invasion of Switzerland, which has no strategical advantage, or Yugoslavia / Albania, which is aligned with the Warsaw Pact, although officially neutral. Also, having Switzerland a neutral haven at the centre of Soviet Occupied Europe leads to a lot of interesting scenarios, just like Switzerland in WW2.

 

[Dallas]

People's Republic of Finland, 1992

 

[Black Rain (1989)]

People's Republic of Finland, 1992

Finnish President Mauno Koivisto's emotional goodbye to his family, moments before the capital is bombarded by the Soviet Baltic Fleet during the Battle of Helsinki. (December, 1991)

 

[Laura]

the politics of the situation is transformed at this point and is not a good indicator of relations between the nations, nothing i am saying is dickish, i am just pointing out the likihood of soviet victory in the event of an invasion

of course there would be an active resistance, but the government itself would cease to operate and would need to leave the country

i didnt make the map, im just saying that finland isnt that big a deal

Yes, I agree to somewhat that if Finland and Soviet Union would have gone to war during the Third World War, During the invasion of rest of Western Europe, What is very unlikely due the Soviets probaly not wanting to open another theater, well. Expand the theater in the North with the Norwegians and rest of NATO. The Soviets do Still have an border with Norway. So Finland is not ''blocking'' their way to Norway, And eitherway. The Finnish infrastructure wouldn't have aided them in the Invasion of Norway eitherway.
And if the Soviets did invade, Finnish wouldn't have just keeled over and died.
It wouldn't be a months long campaings, but not a day one either.

And the reason i'm so hung on about this is that it takes you away from the lore and World.
At the moment, Invading Non-Alligned nations like Finland just for sake of it just slowely seems like a Pro-Soviet Fanfiction.
If there was more then ''Finnish Goverment in Exile, Located in Iceland''
I would be fine with it, but now it just seems that somebody took a big brush and some red paint and the map of Europe and didn't think for a second why would they invade, just did it because it was next to Soviet Union.

At anymeans, i'm not bashing the talented artists or the writers. Only thing i'm trying to say that the fact that Finland was annexed by the Soviets, in the Cold War for sakes of Annexing it is something i'd doubt and not belive.
From what we know, the Western Europe, places like West Germany and other places under Soviet occupation are already experiencing major Civil Unrest, and just invading Finland ontop of that, while the Main part of Europe that is already having resitance, crime and general unrest seems like a shot the foot and asking for more problems for the Occupying forces.
Why invade Finland or Sweden in that matter when you have a border with Norway that you want to invade, it would be a drag but atleast you don't have to occupy whole of Northen Europe

 

['77 East]

1983

"Mr President! The Soviets have attacked our joint exercise and started invading neutral countries!"

Ronald Regan:

"what."​

 

[Laura]

I don't think its worth getting this upset over having your country getting invaded in some Roleplay lore.

It's ultimately an excuse to allow more people to have a variety of characters, yet still be within reason. It doesn't make sense for the Soviets to have so successfully invaded Western Europe, but here we are suspending our disbelief to a reasonable extent for the sake of an interesting and varied setting.

An invasion of Finland seems more reasonable to me than an invasion of Switzerland, which has no strategical advantage, or Yugoslavia / Albania, which is aligned with the Warsaw Pact, although officially neutral. Also, having Switzerland a neutral haven at the centre of Soviet Occupied Europe leads to a lot of interesting scenarios, just like Switzerland in WW2.

I can see most of your points, and giving people more variety of character is honestly great.
But Still, i'm not upset because of my country is the one being invaded in some WW3 Cold War Roleplay lore
I'm just saying from looking at the politics and Finland during the Cold War.
Finland being invaded isn't so reasonable.
But that just my opinion, and everybody has their own ones, just something i wanted to bring up first but now just turned into the normal meme thread of Finnish memes and such. So who cares really?
No hard feeling, just wanted to bring up something that bugged me a bit as a person who studied Finnish history and politics during the Cold War.
Eitherway, thanks for telling your point of view and how you see it.
Sorry if i did get bit out of hand with this.

 

[Black Rain (1989)]

I can see most of your points, and giving people more variety of character is honestly great.
But Still, i'm not upset because of my country is the one being invaded in some WW3 Cold War Roleplay role.
I'm just saying from looking at the politics and Finland during the Cold War.
Finland being invaded isn't so reasonable.
But that just my opinion, and everybody has their own ones, just something i wanted to bring up first but now just turned into the normal meme thread of Finnish memes and such. So who cares really?
No hard feeling, just wanted to bring up something that bugged me a bit as a person who studied Finnish history and politics during the Cold War.
Eitherway, thanks for telling your point of view and how you see it.
Sorry if i did get bit out of hand with this.

I don't know much about Finnish history outside of WW2, I'd be lying to say that I was aware of any of the stuff you said. But it's just the sake of suspension of disbelief for the sake of player variety, a lot of the countries on that list were added for that sake and I tried to keep it within reason as best I could. Maybe with this guide you can start to write some stuff about what things in Finland would be like under the Soviet regime, or perhaps you can begin writing a Finnish character (which you won't need an app for, because I put it in that part of the guide).

In making this origin guide there are so many different nations with so many different intricacies and politics that its impossible to juggle all of it and take it into consideration, sometimes for the sake of the gameplay (and for my own patience) you have to make these kind of generalised points.

I encourage anyone with any particular interest, or point about their own country to maybe write about it in a potential RP doc or chat to me about how their country / interest might manifest in this alt history. I'd be interested to hear people's opinions and read their stories.

It's impossible to write in detail about all the countries involved, and I hope that people will instead put in their own pieces (within reason) as this is of course a collaborative writing effort.

 

[Con the god of fire]

People's Republic of Finland, 1992

 

[Mancom37]

a very good map, looking excellent

surprised to see the soviets went after spain tho - but i suppose the civil war needed to be avenged, plus deny NATO access to Portugal...

Completely destroyed my hopes of having a United Iberia that had actually managed to hold off the invasion due to the various investements that the CIA had in creating the pullback militia. The most interesting thing however is that they were not able to conquer a very valuable strategic point that the US actually was ready to protect, but I trust the whole lore team with their decision, plus this also allows for some interesting character backgrounds.

Since the exiled Gov is actually around the Azores it means that this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lajes_Field is still operational and is a great plataform for NATO to launch air attacks and keep a certain strategical operational unit right next to Europe.

What I don't actually understand is why include only Angola and Mozambique in that sort of status, should have included others like Guinea which actually fielded a soviet-backed airforce.

@char Any thoughts in the destiny of SA? I guess Brazil would turn into the "China of NATO" with this sort of lore right? There wouldn't be any reason for the US to not invite them.

 

[Deleted member 61]

I encourage anyone with any particular interest, or point about their own country to maybe write about it in a potential RP doc or chat to me about how their country / interest might manifest in this alt history. I'd be interested to hear people's opinions and read their stories.

It's impossible to write in detail about all the countries involved, and I hope that people will instead put in their own pieces (within reason) as this is of course a collaborative writing effort.

this will be the steam Workshop of WW3RP :grinning:

edit: until a bunch of people come up with their own separate lores of what happened to the lost state of rhodesia

 

[PEGG LEGG]

Looks like I'm bout to be back on my shit

 

['77 East]

edit: until a bunch of people come up with their own separate lores of what happened to the lost state of rhodesia

let them hatchet each other over rhodesia, no one is touching the sacred land of oceania without my blessing

 

[PEGG LEGG]

Q

here's a little sneak peak for you, dont tell roosebud

Feedback appreciated.

Spoiler

"Yes, let us pray for the salvation of all of those who live in that totalitarian darkness—pray they will discover the joy of knowing God."

The Soviet Union and its sphere of influence and conquered satellites stretch from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Due to the labour and defence requirements of the state, people within the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact find themselves relocated constantly for the benefit of the ongoing war effort.

Following the unrest and revolt in Germany, millions find themselves stranded and displaced across the Stasiland.

Soviet & Warsaw Pact Nations (No Authorisation Required)

Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (U.S.S.R.), consisting of 15 Soviet Socialist Republics (S.S.R.’s): Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belorussia (now Belarus), Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kirgiziya (now Kyrgyzstan), Latvia, Lithuania, Moldavia (now Moldova), Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

German Democratic Republic, unified following the 1983 German Reunification War & the subsequent 'Treaty of Munich'.

Polish People's Republic

Czechoslovak Socialist Republic

Hungarian People's Republic

Socialist Republic of Romania

People's Republic of Bulgaria, annexed Eastern Thrace during the 1983 German Reunification War, captured and renamed Istanbul to Constantinople.

Mongolian People's Republic

Socialist Republic of the Netherlands
[Integrated into the Warsaw Pact following the German Reunification War]

Soviet Republic of Belgium
[Integrated into the Warsaw Pact following the German Reunification War]

People's Republic of Luxembourg
[Integrated into the Warsaw Pact following the German Reunification War]

Although an ally, Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea), there would be no active Korean presence on the European continent due to commitments to fighting in their own country. (Required Authorisation)

Similarly, Mozambique and Angola's Socialist regimes are propped up by material and manpower from the Soviet Bloc. Although, similarly to North Korea, are currently concerned with their own conflicts and as a result are not official belligerents in the Third World War. (Required Authorisation)

Following the initial engagements of World War Three, many Western European nations fell under the direct control of the Soviets and their allies. Weak puppet governments established to add legitimacy to the new regime. Their official governments have fled, setting up a government in exile in allied nations.

Occupied Nations / Governments in exile (No Authorisation Required)

French Commune
(Government in exile: French Republic aka 'Free France', based in London, United Kingdom)

Italian Union
(Government in exile: Italian Republic, based in London, United Kingdom)

Austrian Soviet Republic
(Government in exile: Republic of Austria, based in London, United Kingdom)

Danish Union
(Government in exile: Kingdom of Denmark, based in Reykjavik, Iceland)

Soviet State of Norway
(Government in exile: Kingdom of Norway, based in Reykjavik, Iceland)

People's Republic of Finland
(Government in exile: Republic of Finland, based in Reykjavik, Iceland)

Swedish Folkhemmet
(Government in exile: Kingdom of Sweden, based in Reykjavik, Iceland)

Second Spanish Republic
(Government in exile: Kingdom of Spain, based in Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Canary Islands)

People's Democratic Republic of Portugal
(Government in exile: Portuguese Republic , based in Ponta Delgada, Azores)

Provisional Democratic Republic of Greece
(Government in exile: The Hellenic Republic, based in Ankara, Turkey)

Although officially annexed by the GDR in 1983 for the past nine years, the Federal Republic of Germany operates as a government in exile, based in London. Similarly, the Dutch, Belgian and Luxembourgian government operates from the United Kingdom also.

Interestingly, since the invasion of both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany in 1939, the government of the Republic of Poland operated in exile from London, in opposition firstly to the Nazis and then the Soviets following the end of World War Two. Hailed as the father of the exiled governments, it rallies Polish patriots and defectors to the NATO cause.

All of the governments in exile contribute actively to NATO's armed forces, special forces and intelligence agencies, hoping one day to return to their homeland and free it from Soviet occupation.

The North Atlantic Treaty Organisation was formed in the wake of World War Two, in order to ensure peace in Europe and curb Soviet expansion. After two major wars, and numerous defeats NATO has been forced from the European continent. Although far from defeated, they seek to curtail Soviet influence throughout the world through open conflict and espionage. Upon their evacuation to their new European base of operation in the United Kingdom, equipment and manpower were cut off and subsequently abandoned.

Unable to directly assault the Soviet fortress of Europe, NATO turn to other more clandestine methods of weakening the Communist grip on the continent, hoping one day liberation may be possible.

Due to the growing conflict, some democratic nations have aligned themselves with NATO and actively contribute to the armed efforts of the alliance as co-belligerents.

NATO & Allied Nations (Authorisation Required)

United States of America

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Canada

Republic of Turkey

Commonwealth of Australia

New Zealand

Iceland

Hong Kong

Republic of Cyprus

Japan & Republic of Korea (South Korea) are aligned with NATO, although are committed predominantly to the ongoing fighting on the Korean peninsula.

Officially neutral in the conflict due to concerns over growing tensions with the People's Republic of China, Republic of China (Taiwan) have reportedly been dispatching military liaisons and observers, attaching themselves to NATO & Allied units.

The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is a group of states that are not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc. Although they may have sympathies towards either NATO or the Soviets, contributing volunteers or material, they are not an official combatant of the Third World War.

Non-Aligned Countries (Authorisation Required)
​

Africa
Algeria
Benin
Botswana
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Cameroon
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
Comoros
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Djibouti
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Eswatini
Ethiopia
Gabon
Gambia
Ghana
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Côte d'Ivoire
Kenya
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Madagascar
Malawi
Mali
Mauritania
Mauritius
Morocco
Namibia
Niger
Nigeria
Republic of the Congo
Rwanda
São Tomé and Príncipe
Senegal
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Somalia
South Africa
Sudan
Tanzania
Togo
Tunisia
Uganda
Zambia
Zimbabwe

Americas
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Bahamas
Barbados
Belize
Bolivia
Brazil
Chile
Colombia
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
El Salvador
Grenada
Guatemala
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Jamaica
Mexico
Nicaragua
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Suriname
Trinidad and Tobago
Uruguay
Venezuela

Asia
Afghanistan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Bhutan
Brunei
Cambodia
China
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Kuwait
Laos
Lebanon
Malaysia
Maldives
Myanmar
Nepal
Oman
Pakistan
Palestine
Philippines
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Sri Lanka
Syria
Thailand
East Timor
United Arab Emirates
Vietnam
Yemen

Europe
Albania
Switzerland
Yugoslavia

​

​

Looks dope bro