Suggestion Reduce the price of everything 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Andrew]

Gas your car from 7-100? $345
Deliver mail for forty-five minutes? $900 - mostly due to out-of-town travel time

Want a car of your own, to kit-out, paint, enjoy, cruise with other players, compare rides, race, drag, and go to car meets? $20k-$35k, not including the roll-of-the-dice as to what you can/cannot customize at Benny's. Not to mention the cost of repairing it when it's busted, gassing it up, re-painting, modding - none of that is included in the equation. $25k, take-it-or-leave-it.

I know it's been said before - and I've tried, I really have, to at least level with the reasoning behind things, but it's just difficult. I've invited friends to play, and the pricing of everything has been a turn-off - and that includes people who regularly played games like OSRS/Warframe, where you do nothing but the same things over and over.

I can take the car I currently own out for a joyride, crashing, bashing, enjoying myself, and when the time comes - the repair bill can cost upwards of $1k. Not including the fact I have to gas it up - and that $1k can occur in under thirty minutes of me driving like a doofus. I've run through upwards of 3 civilian cars in under seven minutes before - running through my own in half-an-hour and having to spend double that time getting the money to fund the repair bill is simply egregious.

On top of all of this - you have stores. Bandages are $60, and bleeds always tend to strike at the most inopportune times. Food itself is still $35 for water, with chips being nearly the same. The free money you get per-minute of playtime doesn't rack-up much enough to cover much. Typically, you'll find yourself at a store in the middle of you working something - either because a crash made you bleed, or because you've been around long enough to require food.

I'm not going to factor player-owned businesses into this equation at all - they have their purpose, having the same price to fill your belly at BurgerShot, and the player-owned mechanic, when available, saves you money over using Benny's (for obvious reason, go out there and roleplay) but they aren't always around.


Everything, and I do mean everything needs a price-cut by a wide margin. I would be much happier seeing players walk around with money stuffed into their pockets, free to spend it as they please, free to play with the games given mechanics, roleplay, dump money into doing silly things - over the cut-throat tightrope it feels I have to carefully tread upon to get anywhere.

I'm an adult, I can't spare the time that I have to roleplay by not roleplaying and instead meandering around in a mail-truck/garbage truck mindlessly delivering packages or picking up trash for a while just to not do anything with it, only to crash and have to throw my potential paycheck away because I got bored and started joyriding.

The investment on time you put in to jobs should be awarded tenfold so that you can spend more time you have with players, engaging in activities and having fun. If I was perfectly happy with my owned vehicle, perfectly happy with its tuning, and had the $2k-ish needed as the backstop to get it fixed, I'd be out there sponsoring Reliant-Robin races and funding other players silly ventures so that we can all do something collectively as a group.

It's just not fun at the moment to get money and watch it slowly drain away as you fix your bleeds and gas your car up, or worse - pay to get it fixed. The activities offered are a little more fun to do with other players, but still require such a time investment that the returns are diminished to a point of me not wanting to do them.

Everything just gets solved by owning a lockpick and picking a car - and doing it again when it breaks.

 

[alex]

I can take the car I currently own out for a joyride, crashing, bashing, enjoying myself, and when the time comes - the repair bill can cost upwards of $1k.

Just wanted to add to this specifically; Benny's is intended as a more expensive convenience repair, Hayes is cheaper.

 

[Postal]

everything is expensive?

but it's easy to get cash

 

[deathwolf]

next you'll suggest forgiving student debt!

 

[Andrew]

Just wanted to add to this specifically; Benny's is intended as a more expensive convenience repair, Hayes is cheaper.

I understand this, you interact with others for the roleplay and you get rewarded by not spending as much.

But I have to admit - even after everything - I still stand by it. I don't like that people are expected to suffer to be able to enjoy roleplay, and I still duly disagree with the sum of starting cash as it doesn't allow much leeway in making mistakes - upping it 10-15k will allow people to at LEAST rent cars, own a gun if they want, and feed/heal themselves, with enough of a backstop to give them wiggle room to explore the world and try out jobs without being forced to complete them, or be annoyed at their failure of flipping/ruining cars.

The new user experience really DOES need to be looked at, and part of it definitely lies in the inexperience of new players in acquiring money - which was a pretty good fuel for the fire I'm being cooked over. $5k is enough to wiggle yourself into the hunting rifle or fishing (however fishing works, nobody i know figured it out) but it's not enough to realize the mistakes you've made and change-course on much.

In honesty, I may have been spoiled from spending lots of time on a DarkRP server doing voiceRP (one that allowed permanent weapons, of which I had several - which required large sums of getting cash, typically sitting in a base... not doing/interacting with anyone) but I'd just much prefer more personal freedom by easing things to not make the world seem designed to beat you down to being poor.

And honestly, I really don't care if there's people walking around with >$200k - if they suffered for it, they should get to enjoy it, I guess. More power to them, or something. They don't have to care to upkeep it for a while, and have the freedom to do as they please - something I'm just fighting for so that I don't have to say 'well, it's noon and there's 2 people on, I guess I can burn an hour listening to music and working one job'.

I'm losing my train of thought. I'll keep an eye on the updated car prices in the next few weeks and return with more.

 

[Warwick]

I'm an adult, I can't spare the time that I have to roleplay by not roleplaying and instead meandering around in a mail-truck/garbage truck mindlessly delivering packages or picking up trash for a while just to not do anything with it, only to crash and have to throw my potential paycheck away because I got bored and started joyriding.

This has certified not been a problem for me and I have a full time fairly demanding job.

I play when nobody's on and make money easily while listening to a podcast.

I play when people are on and don't have to worry about making money.

Believe me when I say if my money is suddenly worth nothing, that'll probably motivate me to stop playing.

For the record, you can easily make $7,500 an hour on the server if you're even remotely trying to.

 

[Andrew]

Believe me when I say if my money is suddenly worth nothing, that'll probably motivate me to stop playing.

I don't really understand this part

 

[Straven]

I play when nobody's on and make money easily while listening to a podcast.

This comes down to personal preference but I believe a majority of people would rather do something else with their freetime other than grinding money in a roleplay server just to be able to afford the ability to travel within your own legally owned vehicle.

I don't really understand this part

He's basically saying that if the starting money were increased and the price of things were decreased, it would invalidate to an extent the grind he has put in to get the current money he has as it will lose some of its value.

The problem with this mindset is that its basically "because I had to do this, everyone else should" when in reality nobody should be forced to grind. In my opinion having to grind for things should only be limited to high-end items like Sports cars/Luxury cars (Limo's), mansions, etc. And having to do relatively minor grinding for mid-end items.

The focus of the server is roleplay and so some basic items for roleplay should be more easily available such as people being able to own their own vehicle relatively easily lol

 

[Andrew]

This comes down to personal preference but I believe a majority of people would rather do something else with their freetime other than grinding money in a roleplay server just to be able to afford the ability to travel within your own legally owned vehicle.


He's basically saying that if the starting money were increased and the price of things were decreased, it would invalidate to an extent the grind he has put in to get the current money he has as it will lose some of its value.

The problem with this mindset is that its basically "because I had to do this, everyone else should" when in reality nobody should be forced to grind. In my opinion having to grind for things should only be limited to high-end items like Sports cars/Luxury cars (Limo's), mansions, etc. And having to do relatively minor grinding for mid-end items.

The focus of the server is roleplay and so some basic items for roleplay should be more easily available such as people being able to own their own vehicle relatively easily lol

yea i wanted him to admit that in his own words

there's nothing wrong with giving handouts and free cash so that people can actually afford to play the game - when i found out cops will just outright take your handgun away i was mindblown because it's like 90% of your starting cash GONE if you decide to have too much fun and mess up (as one of my friends did)

div had it right where random events would pay out an agreeable sum of cash, and i was outright handed stuff like 10-15k at times for reporting actual bugs that got caught (!!!!!!! do this !!!!!!!)

bounties, random events, incentivized meetups (small rewards for winning a car show) making jobs pay more - there's a lot of ways to tackle the money problem, which is why i want to suggest all this crazy stuff now so it can stew in people's brains and form ideas as time goes on

and if you got all the cash yourself on your own terms, more power to you

 

[MaXenzie]

i honestly dont find a lot of the money-making ventures fun

like chop shop being the most well-paying means to make money is nice, but i mostly do it because it's the only job i know that's not utter braindead tedium and monotony

reducing the price of everything feels like a band-aid fix, there's still the core problem of this being a roleplay server in which grinding is still the only real way to make money (make being the optimal term), and many many systems are in place just to drain your money (food/drink, repairs, gas, bandages for when someone accidentally punches you)

like i stay net-neutral because i rampantly steal cars instead of repairing them, and I'm like middle class on the server at about $30,000

 

[Warwick]

This comes down to personal preference but I believe a majority of people would rather do something else with their freetime other than grinding money in a roleplay server just to be able to afford the ability to travel within your own legally owned vehicle.

I listen to podcasts while gaming anyway - that's just a way I unwind. You do you.

The focus of the server is roleplay and so some basic items for roleplay should be more easily available such as people being able to own their own vehicle relatively easily lol

I have agreed with this since day one, but I still think people should be working for things. Also, I don't think that someone should be able to get themselves $100,000 in debt and still buy whatever they want lmao - they did that to themselves

 

[avralwobniar]

Believe me when I say if my money is suddenly worth nothing, that'll probably motivate me to stop playing.

For the record, you can easily make $7,500 an hour on the server if you're even remotely trying to.

if I wanted to do that I'd play any other mmo or whatever. that's cool that you do that, but you're the minority in this situation. nobody else but the guy without a mic is here to sit around for 4 hours chop shopping

plus you can't use your money for anything currently so its already worthless

Also, I don't think that someone should be able to get themselves $100,000 in debt and still buy whatever they want lmao - they did that to themselves

I dont think an ex-cop that got the boot for setting up an auto clicker should be allowed to transition into a full time hardened criminal stockpiling hundreds of thousands of dead hours grinded for cash, but just like what you said here it doesn't really matter in the context of the discussion and it's just a meaningless dig

 

[Mute]

It's not that difficult to get money, I've joined Warwick like once or twice and pretty casually we've gotten like 10k each for an hour or two of work

I'm saying this as a dude who hates grinding, just having someone to talk to or having some music on makes the time fly

That being said I do think the server kinda suffers from that weird Neb item exclusivity that happened even on HL2RP, where things were just generally balanced badly and catered towards grinders which I hated a lot

Like I said money isn't impossible to get but I'd prefer having other avenues to make it. I would not mind giving other players a boost despite the money I've made if it means they get to have more fun playing

 

[Warwick]

I dont think an ex-cop that got the boot for setting up an auto clicker should be allowed to transition into a full time hardened criminal stockpiling hundreds of thousands of dead hours grinded for cash, but just like what you said here it doesn't really matter in the context of the discussion and it's just a meaningless dig

Continue seething because you don’t like me, but I had 30,000 when I left being a cop. Emphasis on left, because clearly you’re mistaken about that. Since then I’ve made over 150,000. Because it’s easy. Most of this I’ve done playing with friends. Because it’s easy.

You can make $7,500 an hour without a challenge if you just play the game as it currently exists. You can do this with as few as one other and as many as three other people. You can make a few hundred bucks in seconds solo if you just want to cover your expenses for a day’s gameplay.

You can’t not engage with anything that makes you money and then simultaneously complain that the money making isn’t working, especially when the IC government is trying to literally help you wipe your debts clean, in the most extreme of cases.

There is no ill will towards players with less money here, not at all. I think every player should have a shitty car and enough money to fuel it and feed themselves. What I don’t think, is that the players that really engage with the money making aspect of the server, should be punished by having their money suddenly become worth less. If you want to reduce the cost of things, that’s fine. Nobody is hurt by that unless they intend to set up a loans business. However, a flat cash injection to all bank accounts will massively destabilise the economy, and all the devs already know that.

 

[MaXenzie]

the costs of stuff isn't much an issue per say, its moreso the availability or buy-in of getting these items

cars can be expensive so long as people have a cheaper means of transport on or near character creation
(long-term renting when)

 

[Straven]

Also, I don't think that someone should be able to get themselves $100,000 in debt and still buy whatever they want lmao - they did that to themselves

Don't really know where this came from, I don't think anybody said anything to the contrary and I certainly didn't lol.

You can make $7,500 an hour without a challenge if you just play the game as it currently exists

The challenge is enduring the tediousness of grinding really boring jobs whilst engaging in virtually no roleplay just to be able to afford a rusty ass Emperor, money rn has little worth as there is not much to spend it on

You can’t not engage with anything that makes you money and then simultaneously complain that the money making isn’t working, especially when the IC government is trying to literally help you wipe your debts clean, in the most extreme of cases.

As a guy who is both not engaging at all in making money and complaining about money making being rubbish, I can confirm that I am able and will continue to do as such

Also I am assuming the debt thing is in reference to me seeing as Negan is likely the only character so much in debt that a wipe is necessitated. I was told to grind off like 70k of my debt which if we go by your $7,500 per hour standard would take me about 9 and a half hours of straight grinding to do and only then would I be considered a chance, through the courts or some shit idk, to be able to have the rest of my debt reduced, to prove that I am serious about not being in debt

Now I don't think its absurd of me to believe that, that would be an utter waste of my time, so I guess Negan is just swallowed in an eternal black hole of debt that will endlessly pile on cause I decided to give Burger Shot their 900th health inspection or some crap

 

[Rain]

You can make $7,500 an hour without a challenge if you just play the game as it currently exists. You can do this with as few as one other and as many as three other people. You can make a few hundred bucks in seconds solo if you just want to cover your expenses for a day’s gameplay.

Can't remember if the chopshop group stuff is just because its faster with more people or just pays more in a group but would be nice to see that in any other activities with prison risk. Something like increased payout but higher chance of being caught maybe.

Would need some minigame difficulty or crime detection changes for that though cause chop and houses are already almost risk free and solo safes i'm not sure if they are even possible anymore without atleast being chased, probably only in a far away area and if they don't send a chopper.

Not sure if difficulty tiers would be better where it gets more rewarding e.g. chop>house>safe or chop/house > safe or make all of them equal difficulty so you can choose what you prefer. Chop could be something like chopping more expensive cars = more likely to get flagged somehow and lspd start looking for it. All would need to account for how many cops are online though.

 

[Warwick]

Don't really know where this came from, I don't think anybody said anything to the contrary and I certainly didn't lol.

Yeah, don't worry - it was hyperbole.

The challenge is enduring the tediousness of grinding really boring jobs whilst engaging in virtually no roleplay just to be able to afford a rusty ass Emperor, money rn has little worth as there is not much to spend it on

Get a few friends together, for the sake of an hour a day for 4 days and you can all afford a cheap car/bike.

As a guy who is both not engaging at all in making money and complaining about money making being rubbish, I can confirm that I am able and will continue to do as such

Also I am assuming the debt thing is in reference to me seeing as Negan is likely the only character so much in debt that a wipe is necessitated. I was told to grind off like 70k of my debt which if we go by your $7,500 per hour standard would take me about 9 and a half hours of straight grinding to do and only then would I be considered a chance, through the courts or some shit idk, to be able to have the rest of my debt reduced, to prove that I am serious about not being in debt

Now I don't think its absurd of me to believe that, that would be an utter waste of my time, so I guess Negan is just swallowed in an eternal black hole of debt that will endlessly pile on cause I decided to give Burger Shot their 900th health inspection or some crap

What I'm getting at is that if you have nearly $200,000 of debt there is still ways to make money. Most of the criminal jobs (and one of the civi jobs) are cash in hand. If you want to play a literally mindless character, who does the same thing day in and day out, pestering cops, committing crimes of every variety, don't be surprised when there's consequences. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. It might be entertaining for yourself and others, but that unfortunately doesn't mean it should be rewarded - otherwise everyone would do it, and then it wouldn't be remotely fun.

Can't remember if the chopshop group stuff is just because its faster with more people or just pays more in a group but would be nice to see that in any other activities with prison risk. Something like increased payout but higher chance of being caught maybe.

It's a little of column A and a little of column B. With four people it's substantially faster and carries less risk due to the tactics you can employ - as well as you being paid more and the payout not being split.

Would need some minigame difficulty or crime detection changes for that though cause chop and houses are already almost risk free and solo safes i'm not sure if they are even possible anymore without atleast being chased, probably only in a far away area and if they don't send a chopper.

Stores kind of fit that bill, but even then, with the players on the server that are able to safecrack in sub-30 now, it's not too much of a concern as long as you have a good driver.

 

[MaXenzie]

with the players on the server that are able to safecrack in sub-30 now

im the crackest mfer around

 

[aperson]

I don't have much of a problem with the cost of items, with items like bandages I see more of an emergency thing in case you are bleeding or are in dire need of health at that moment, and if you need further healing you can head to the hospital to get fully healed for free. Food from stores isn't as nutritious as food from Burgershot, possibly done to incentivise going to player-run restaurants and act as a hub for roleplay, and it should stay that way.

I would be for reducing the price of vehicles at the PDM, even to just something like 3/4 of their current price I think would go a long way in making cars more affordable, and also give Hayes a reason to open.