Suggestion Reduce the price of everything 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Andrew]

Gas your car from 7-100? $345
Deliver mail for forty-five minutes? $900 - mostly due to out-of-town travel time

Want a car of your own, to kit-out, paint, enjoy, cruise with other players, compare rides, race, drag, and go to car meets? $20k-$35k, not including the roll-of-the-dice as to what you can/cannot customize at Benny's. Not to mention the cost of repairing it when it's busted, gassing it up, re-painting, modding - none of that is included in the equation. $25k, take-it-or-leave-it.

I know it's been said before - and I've tried, I really have, to at least level with the reasoning behind things, but it's just difficult. I've invited friends to play, and the pricing of everything has been a turn-off - and that includes people who regularly played games like OSRS/Warframe, where you do nothing but the same things over and over.

I can take the car I currently own out for a joyride, crashing, bashing, enjoying myself, and when the time comes - the repair bill can cost upwards of $1k. Not including the fact I have to gas it up - and that $1k can occur in under thirty minutes of me driving like a doofus. I've run through upwards of 3 civilian cars in under seven minutes before - running through my own in half-an-hour and having to spend double that time getting the money to fund the repair bill is simply egregious.

On top of all of this - you have stores. Bandages are $60, and bleeds always tend to strike at the most inopportune times. Food itself is still $35 for water, with chips being nearly the same. The free money you get per-minute of playtime doesn't rack-up much enough to cover much. Typically, you'll find yourself at a store in the middle of you working something - either because a crash made you bleed, or because you've been around long enough to require food.

I'm not going to factor player-owned businesses into this equation at all - they have their purpose, having the same price to fill your belly at BurgerShot, and the player-owned mechanic, when available, saves you money over using Benny's (for obvious reason, go out there and roleplay) but they aren't always around.


Everything, and I do mean everything needs a price-cut by a wide margin. I would be much happier seeing players walk around with money stuffed into their pockets, free to spend it as they please, free to play with the games given mechanics, roleplay, dump money into doing silly things - over the cut-throat tightrope it feels I have to carefully tread upon to get anywhere.

I'm an adult, I can't spare the time that I have to roleplay by not roleplaying and instead meandering around in a mail-truck/garbage truck mindlessly delivering packages or picking up trash for a while just to not do anything with it, only to crash and have to throw my potential paycheck away because I got bored and started joyriding.

The investment on time you put in to jobs should be awarded tenfold so that you can spend more time you have with players, engaging in activities and having fun. If I was perfectly happy with my owned vehicle, perfectly happy with its tuning, and had the $2k-ish needed as the backstop to get it fixed, I'd be out there sponsoring Reliant-Robin races and funding other players silly ventures so that we can all do something collectively as a group.

It's just not fun at the moment to get money and watch it slowly drain away as you fix your bleeds and gas your car up, or worse - pay to get it fixed. The activities offered are a little more fun to do with other players, but still require such a time investment that the returns are diminished to a point of me not wanting to do them.

Everything just gets solved by owning a lockpick and picking a car - and doing it again when it breaks.

 

[Andrew]

I have no idea how to word this, but acting like money isn't a problem when you've min/maxed and routed out how/when/where to actually make money, you shouldn't be surprised that you can make a large sum in a small period of time - a lot of this suggestion is driven towards improving the new-player experience as a driving factor, reduction of needed time spent engaging in the activities to make money, and allowing people who don't want to lean towards learning every system and trying to game it a chance to just play casually and still get somewhere.

Not everyone has friends who are around when they are to group-up (all the more reason to group with randoms, I know - and Chirp makes it easy if you wanted to), not everyone wants to learn all these wack methods to doing everything, not everyone wants to commit crime (as shown by a handful of people talking about avoiding picking cars and whatnot), and not everyone wants to get upwards of $100k to just sit on and do nothing with.

Also, the reduction of cost of items makes your money worth more, not less.

 

[Warwick]

Not everyone has friends who are around when they are to group-up (all the more reason to group with randoms, I know - and Chirp makes it easy if you wanted to)

for the record; our group formed organically and in character

not everyone wants to get upwards of $100k to just sit on and do nothing with.

then what's the issue lol just have less money

Also, the reduction of cost of items makes your money worth more, not less.

see previous:

If you want to reduce the cost of things, that’s fine. Nobody is hurt by that unless they intend to set up a loans business. However, a flat cash injection to all bank accounts will massively destabilise the economy, and all the devs already know that.

 

[Andrew]

yea but what economy
there's no player-traded items

 

[MaXenzie]

yea but what economy
there's no player-traded items

that's a wider issue that isnt really solved by reducing the prices of items

IMO yes there should be a player-ran economy but the server's in early access with a peak of the same 20-odd people each day, there literally isn't enough people to man the facilities for there to be player-run economic simulation right now

once businesses are sorted and chop shopping goes from an NPC job that's done in 30 minutes to something that's more like a 3 day venture involving other players and prep and planning, with a 5 figure payout, we'd be incentivizing roleplay and long-term economic growth instead of $800 stimulus injections every 30 minutes

 

[Aether]

Another point to bring up is that there's not really anyone making companies either to stimulate said economy - through players not really wanting to for whatever reasons, to other reasons like apps taking a long time to be processed, or the applications themselves not being processed at all (from an outsider's pov) and that needs to change.

Like we can say "oh it's easy to grind 100k" but that's exclusively through crime related stuff like chopping cars, and if you're a character that wants to stay straight, then there's pretty much sweet fuck all for you to do bar join the EMS/LSPD currently. Sure you can be a taxi driver (no one will hire you because they can't afford to be constantly taking taxis), you could do deliveries (except that it takes almost 20 minutes per run and the pay is piss poor) or you could do tow trucking (which is only useful in once in a blue moon and usually doesn't result in any pay), so honestly I'm tired of hearing that it's 'easy' to make money when that only applies to if you're willing to risk being a criminal to make it.

Like I, as Hugh Chunt, rely pretty much solely on the dole to make my cash because signing into weazel news makes me less money, and there aren't any companies to make advertisement deals with yet or to create sponsorships (the literal only other company that exists is burgershot and they have refused it) which means I'm put in a situation where I have to try and leverage my content against people via blackmail or bartering, which sure, works rarely but by doing so I put myself at odds with people and ultimately isolates me, as criminals are more likely to just threaten me or outright kidnap me and cops will usually hit me with obstruction, so what the fuck am I actually supposed to do? Like even if I went and did delivery work (the literal only paying legal job) I outright deny myself any opportunities to be present for events that I could be recording, and isolates me from roleplay beyond anyone doing the job with me.

I think the only way the economy can be fixed is by introducing more companies and maybe lowering some prices.

I also think if there were more character slots people could have more characters to make more things with so they didn't feel like it would be out of character to create a business their character cannot financially run or would not make sense for that character to run. I've consistently thought about putting in an application for the vanilla unicorn or bahama mama's and making a full blown nightclub but I can't because I simply do not have the fucking character slots to be able to do it.

 

[Warwick]

so honestly I'm tired of hearing that it's 'easy' to make money when that only applies to if you're willing to risk being a criminal to make it.

Like I, as Hugh Chunt, rely pretty much solely on the dole to make my cash because signing into weazel news makes me less money

These two things are a problem. Not the rich criminal players, but the fact that most jobs aren't paying enough.

Another point to bring up is that there's not really anyone making companies either to stimulate said economy - through players not really wanting to for whatever reasons, to other reasons like apps taking a long time to be processed, or the applications themselves not being processed at all (from an outsider's pov) and that needs to change.

Unfortunately it's partly the case that some stuff still isn't implemented. It's early access, after all.

 

[Aether]

These two things are a problem. Not the rich criminal players, but the fact that most jobs aren't paying enough.

I agree with you. Criminal jobs should pay more - that much is a given due to the inherent risk involved, but there needs to be ways to make money as a law abiding citizen. Currently there's plain and simply fuck all.

Unfortunately it's partly the case that some stuff still isn't implemented. It's early access, after all.

I get that to a degree a someone who wanted to hire the arena so I could host events at it, only to be told that there was coding needed to be done to make it functional and that it would have to wait, but that being said there's got to be some companies that could exist with only a little bit of work.

Like off the top of my head;
1. a nightclub/bar that allows people to socialise and get drunk
2. an actual fishing company that uses trawlers and fishing boats to fish that they sell so rather than going fishing and catching one or two fish you're catching a hundred
3. a farm that grows food to sell to the restaurants (which could bring in a supply chain required for the restaurants like burgershot to require, so the food isn't just magic'd into existence)
4. an actual shipping company to ship the priorly mentioned grown food to said restaurants
5. a recycling company that uses the scrap yard by the arena as an actual recycling plant where they buy scrap people are able to salvage to create parts for cars that they can then sell on to hayes

 

[Warwick]

1. a nightclub/bar that allows people to socialise and get drunk

Music is an issue that needs ratification and a solution before anyone will do this, and even then, honestly - I don't know that people will hang in bars. I discussed this with staff already.

2. an actual fishing company that uses trawlers and fishing boats to fish that they sell so rather than going fishing and catching one or two fish you're catching a hundred

This sounds fun, but it's a huge code requirement for one single business.

. a farm that grows food to sell to the restaurants (which could bring in a supply chain required for the restaurants like burgershot to require, so the food isn't just magic'd into existence)

As above.

4. an actual shipping company to ship the priorly mentioned grown food to said restaurants

Once again, a lot of coding to be implemented.

5. a recycling company that uses the scrap yard by the arena as an actual recycling plant where they buy scrap people are able to salvage to create parts for cars that they can then sell on to hayes

And again, a lot of code to be implemented.

All of these sound like potentially fun businesses, but they'd require a lot of coding for one single business. Coding these things isn't as simple as just filling in a skeleton like in LUA. It's time consuming, requires a lot of bug-fixing and quality assessment, and then furthermore, should realistically be serving as many players as possible - not just the 1-6 possible employees of a business.

 

[Aether]

Music is an issue that needs ratification and a solution before anyone will do this

Took me ten seconds to find this and it has some decent tracks in it. I could see it going well at bahama mamas

I don't know that people will hang in bars.

People want places to hang out at, and I'm sure as crime develops they'll want somewhere they can meet to trade things. Hell, if you really wanna give them a reason to go there, give alcohol a buff beyond just messing with your screen.

All I'm saying is that bars exist on other servers, so unless we're some extremely strange quirk of a community, I'm sure we'll use them too.

This sounds fun, but it's a huge code requirement for one single business.

We already have boats and I know fishing boats exist in GTA so it's a matter of getting said boat and then upscaling the fishing minigame.

As above.

We have growing mechanics with weed, can be repurposed for growing other plants and scaled upwards to create farms. You could add farm animals as ones that can be killed for meat which can then be processed into stuff like burgers.

Once again, a lot of coding to be implemented.

Ironically this is probably the one that doesn't require any coding at all. A literal random person with a truck could create a shipping company and create contracts with the food services to get paid to deliver the food to them from the farms.

All of these sound like potentially fun businesses, but they'd require a lot of coding for one single business. Coding these things isn't as simple as just filling in a skeleton like in LUA. It's time consuming, requires a lot of bug-fixing and quality assessment, and then furthermore, should realistically be serving as many players as possible - not just the 1-6 possible employees of a business.

Okay but we can keep saying that and just sit in this perpetual wasteland of doing fucking nothing until we all grow bored or we could still try to do it. Just because the code doesn't exist right now doesn't mean anything when you consider that the code won't be worked on until someone needs it to exist. If someone applies for one of these companies, then at least the devteam is aware of someone wanting to do that, and then they can actually work on that code. They're not just going to create code for businesses if no one actually wants to be that business. Since creating Current Affairs I've requested a bunch of changes to the camera and to my knowledge they're slowing being tinkered with in the background or are at least on a to-do list.

No ball will start rolling until someone pushes it.

 

[Warwick]

Took me ten seconds to find this and it has some decent tracks in it. I could see it going well at bahama mamas

Yeah, but implementation isn't just drag and drop.

People want places to hang out at, and I'm sure as crime develops they'll want somewhere they can meet to trade things. Hell, if you really wanna give them a reason to go there, give alcohol a buff beyond just messing with your screen.

All I'm saying is that bars exist on other servers, so unless we're some extremely strange quirk of a community, I'm sure we'll use them too.

Put it this way, there's a reason people don't really go to bars and the like on similar servers, where they might do on text servers.

We already have boats and I know fishing boats exist in GTA so it's a matter of getting said boat and then upscaling the fishing minigame.

Yeah, no. Things just don't work that way, or aren't always as simple as it might seem. Unless you have experience with coding in FiveM, it's impossible to say.

Okay but we can keep saying that and just sit in this perpetual wasteland of doing fucking nothing until we all grow bored or we could still try to do it. Just because the code doesn't exist right now doesn't mean anything when you consider that the code won't be worked on until someone needs it to exist. If someone applies for one of these companies, then at least the devteam is aware of someone wanting to do that, and then they can actually work on that code. They're not just going to create code for businesses if no one actually wants to be that business. Since creating Current Affairs I've requested a bunch of changes to the camera and to my knowledge they're slowing being tinkered with in the background or are at least on a to-do list.

No ball will start rolling until someone pushes it.

I think you're operating under the assumption that nobody is developing things. There are businesses that have been applied for, and things are being operated on. Be patient, enjoy what we do have. There isn't a day that I log on that I don't find something to enjoy. Look for the positives rather than trying to find what's not there, or pining for features that aren't in yet. Just enjoy the RP for now and let things develop as they do. I for one, would prefer if devs didn't burn themselves out.

 

[Aether]

Put it this way, there's a reason people don't really go to bars and the like on similar servers, where they might do on text servers.

If I were to use solely nopixel as an example of a voice based server, bars get used.

Yeah, no. Things just don't work that way, or aren't always as simple as it might seem. Unless you have experience with coding in FiveM, it's impossible to say.

Sure, I'll give you that, but what I'm saying with the limited knowledge of coding I do have is that at least there is similar mechanics that have already been coded that you could use to create new ones.

I think you're operating under the assumption that nobody is developing things.

I'm more than aware things are being developed, but I'm unsure who they're being developed for. I honestly do not care a damn if criminals get a new way to make money if civilians don't get anything.

There are businesses that have been applied for, and things are being operated on.

Unless they're hidden applications, going purely off of the application section of city hall we have:
1. Up-n-Atom: posted 9 days ago, no comment on the thread, no accepted tag, no business opened yet. One would assume given the existence of burgershot that all code required to make another fast food business already exists, and I know we have access to the venue requested, so one could only assume the only requirement is art for the items, which I would understand taking time but again with no comments or anything on the thread, it appears to be dead in the water presently.
2. Higgings Helitours & Services: posted 33 days ago, to my knowledge was denied due to the cost of the business needing to buy the helicopters. Nothing has been outwardly said since.
3. Liquidity Loans: posted 32 days ago, last comment was that an interior was required and that was it. Assumedly not denied but functionally stuck in limbo seemingly.
4. Zaza Plaza: posted 36 days ago, functionally denied due to the illegality of commercial sale of cannabis. To my knowledge with my talks with @boots this remains dead in the water.
5. LS Customs: posted 33 days ago, superseded by the existence of and then failure of Hayes autos. As supposedly a new owner of hayes is coming into existence in the future, my assumption is that perhaps this will overtake hayes but presently with no accepted tag and no comment, outwardly looks dead in the water.
6. Me Gusta Taco: posted 32 days ago, no accepted tag, no comments at all, doesn't exist so again, outwardly looks like it is dead in the water.

The only only business that was actually applied for, accepted and is active is mine, CAM. If there are things being done in the background, perhaps it'd be prudent to make it more obvious to everyone else that these businesses are accepted or denied so that we have an idea of if any of these companies will ever come into existence or if they'll exist in a perpetual limbo.

Be patient, enjoy what we do have.

We are approaching our 2 month-iversary. While I am definitely doing things to try and give myself things to do - writing new contracts with people and thankfully negan returned so there's actually something entertaining going on again, patience has a limit.

Look for the positives rather than trying to find what's not there, or pining for features that aren't in yet.

As a vocal supporter of the server and the community who continues to try and create new things for it, believe me, I look for the positives but they're beginning to run low.

Just enjoy the RP for now and let things develop as they do.

I am limited to the roleplay that my characters can do, and again, without more character slots, I am limited.

I for one, would prefer if devs didn't burn themselves out.

No one wants that, but since the server came out we've received less and less information about what is being worked on. Prior to release, we had teasers showing us things were coming and that doesn't happen any more. Content updates that show what has been added have become more sporadic than regular, which makes it feel as though things aren't being done. Transparency is required, otherwise people will only assume the worst.

 

[Warwick]

If I were to use solely nopixel as an example of a voice based server, bars get used.


Sure, I'll give you that, but what I'm saying with the limited knowledge of coding I do have is that at least there is similar mechanics that have already been coded that you could use to create new ones.


I'm more than aware things are being developed, but I'm unsure who they're being developed for. I honestly do not care a damn if criminals get a new way to make money if civilians don't get anything.


Unless they're hidden applications, going purely off of the application section of city hall we have:
1. Up-n-Atom: posted 9 days ago, no comment on the thread, no accepted tag, no business opened yet. One would assume given the existence of burgershot that all code required to make another fast food business already exists, and I know we have access to the venue requested, so one could only assume the only requirement is art for the items, which I would understand taking time but again with no comments or anything on the thread, it appears to be dead in the water presently.
2. Higgings Helitours & Services: posted 33 days ago, to my knowledge was denied due to the cost of the business needing to buy the helicopters. Nothing has been outwardly said since.
3. Liquidity Loans: posted 32 days ago, last comment was that an interior was required and that was it. Assumedly not denied but functionally stuck in limbo seemingly.
4. Zaza Plaza: posted 36 days ago, functionally denied due to the illegality of commercial sale of cannabis. To my knowledge with my talks with @boots this remains dead in the water.
5. LS Customs: posted 33 days ago, superseded by the existence of and then failure of Hayes autos. As supposedly a new owner of hayes is coming into existence in the future, my assumption is that perhaps this will overtake hayes but presently with no accepted tag and no comment, outwardly looks dead in the water.
6. Me Gusta Taco: posted 32 days ago, no accepted tag, no comments at all, doesn't exist so again, outwardly looks like it is dead in the water.

The only only business that was actually applied for, accepted and is active is mine, CAM. If there are things being done in the background, perhaps it'd be prudent to make it more obvious to everyone else that these businesses are accepted or denied so that we have an idea of if any of these companies will ever come into existence or if they'll exist in a perpetual limbo.


We are approaching our 2 month-iversary. While I am definitely doing things to try and give myself things to do - writing new contracts with people and thankfully negan returned so there's actually something entertaining going on again, patience has a limit.


As a vocal supporter of the server and the community who continues to try and create new things for it, believe me, I look for the positives but they're beginning to run low.

I am limited to the roleplay that my characters can do, and again, without more character slots, I am limited.


No one wants that, but since the server came out we've received less and less information about what is being worked on. Prior to release, we had teasers showing us things were coming and that doesn't happen any more. Content updates that show what has been added have become more sporadic than regular, which makes it feel as though things aren't being done. Clarity is required, otherwise people will only assume the worst.

With love and respect, I'm not going to read all that. I get fundamentally what you're getting at, but all I and anyone else can tell you is to be patient. The game is still in early access. It isn't going anywhere. You're not losing anything for playing this free game, and you're not losing anything if you take a break. Nothing is forcing you to keep playing. Do it because you enjoy it, and if you don't, stop. Suggestions are great - but sometimes they're not grounded in reality, or need a lot of work to bring to reality. For that reason, we just need to take our foot off the pedal a bit, and enjoy what we do have. I know for a fact, that @aperson, @MaXenzie, @Kafe and I are enjoying every time we play. It doesn't feel like a hassle and it feels organic. We set our group up organically, with no intention of doing so. Heck, I hadn't even spoken to two of them before.

Regardless, let's all agree on the crux of this post.

You should be able to get a rusty car/bike day one.

 

[alex]

Regardless, let's all agree on the crux of this post.

You should be able to get a rusty car/bike day one.

A rusty bike or car is somewhere around 10k already.

 

[Straven]

You're not losing anything for playing this free game

Time.

 

[Warwick]

Time.

Then simply don't. If you dislike it, or dislike your experience, don't play.

You are not being forced to participate.

If you genuinely consider it a net loss to play this game, then I don't know what to tell you, pal.

 

[boots]

With love and respect, I'm not going to read all that. I get fundamentally what you're getting at, but all I and anyone else can tell you is to be patient. The game is still in early access. It isn't going anywhere. You're not losing anything for playing this free game, and you're not losing anything if you take a break. Nothing is forcing you to keep playing. Do it because you enjoy it, and if you don't, stop. Suggestions are great - but sometimes they're not grounded in reality, or need a lot of work to bring to reality. For that reason, we just need to take our foot off the pedal a bit, and enjoy what we do have. I know for a fact, that @aperson, @MaXenzie, @Kafe and I are enjoying every time we play. It doesn't feel like a hassle and it feels organic. We set our group up organically, with no intention of doing so. Heck, I hadn't even spoken to two of them before.

Regardless, let's all agree on the crux of this post.

You should be able to get a rusty car/bike day one.

> constructive criticism

"aint reading allat"