Suggestion Remove Sniper Rifles

[Andrew]

See above.

With this post being made, I'd like to assert that this was, in fact, fueled by today's events.
This post would not have been made if prominent snipers on both sides of this conflict didn't agree to have them removed.

With this being said, the Vortigaunt faction still exists - it's not as bad as it was on Apoc or Depot anymore.
I would suggest a small-time meeting for current vortigaunts to decide a course of action over this - as they're the ones playing them.
I, myself, would support either a loss of damage at-range to not have any changes in user-to-user gameplay...
but would be fine intentionally missing like I already have on Abe long ago at longer distances.

And yeah, the vortiswep is old, and would have to be touched-up to make some things happen. One step at a time.​

 

[Ron]

GTA is getting a lot of suggestions today

 

[Andrew]

GTA is getting a lot of suggestions today

It's a crossover event

 

[Blitz0012]

intentionally missing

I do this too, yes. I love an good ole intentional miss, do it all the time.

As an actual thought though, we should consider how snipers have performed on other maps also. I'd say on this map - they're really big trouble. Alps, they were decent - not really sure though given the s2k on that map didn't really fit sniper combat though I might've just missed 'em. City 24 I'd say snipers weren't too bad, though I imagine not having an NLR period and no one-life battles really helped that.

Another note, if lot's of people are getting instantly decked and locked out of s2k - why not do a second wave?

 

['77 East]

Another note, if lot's of people are getting instantly decked and locked out of s2k - why not do a second wave?

human waves don't work when your enemy has a scope, a good view and is entrenched

 

[Deleted member 906]

yes. x1 agree @ title

 

[RedMan]

Alps, they were decent - not really sure though given the s2k on that map didn't really fit sniper combat though I might've just missed 'em.

Boreas always put the Combine at a severe geographical disadvantage. If it was not the lack of cover and always finding yourself at the low-ground, it was the Sniper fire and G36s which were incredibly miserable to deal with. It dissuaded any form of patrols out of the base towards the end of the map.

 

[Flippy]

I wasn't on for the attack, so not sure how many rebels were attacking. Nine got taken out by the sniper:

Line 11056: [20:20:04] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
Line 11086: [20:20:12] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
Line 11128: [20:20:31] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
Line 12145: [20:27:08] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
Line 12583: [20:29:11] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
Line 13184: [20:33:13] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
Line 13212: [20:33:23] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
Line 13395: [20:35:16] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
Line 13509: [20:36:47] XXX has killed XXX with ix_combine_sniper.
(Names removed so no one flings shit)

To the surprise of no one, a sniper on this map is quite good (If you think killing 9 people in about15 mins isn't an issue, then I don't know what to tell you) and while I don't think we need to outright ban them, I would hope the other side takes this into account for future battles as if it's just going to be a repeat of this, then I don't really see how Rebels stand much of a chance without rushing the sniper or counter-sniping (which, is a limited item that is not allowed to be given out without auth so good luck with that).

Don't forget the fact the combine sniper can one tap anyone, where as the snipers from the rebel side are two-hit (outside of cops).

 

[Rabid]

I would hope the other side takes this into account for future battles as if it's just going to be a repeat of this, then I don't really see how Rebels stand much of a chance without rushing the sniper or counter-sniping (which, is a limited item that is not allowed to be given out without auth so good luck with that).

Tbf a big part of why the sniper was so lethal yesterday was because you had two scanners out providing photographs that let the sniper know where people were to pick them off.

That being said, snipers have been a consistent headache on both sides since launch so I wouldn't mind their removal.

 

[Tinbe]

Mind you, my personal experience with """sniping""" as vortigaunt has always been miserable. Let me summarize the three distance groupings I've come to observe in vortal combat:
1. Enemy is a four-pixel blob, impossible to either hit or figure out if you hit them - but Combine sniper can turn you into a corpse just fine.
2. Enemy is a ten-pixel blob, still incredibly difficult to hit - but now, they can kill you just fine with 3 bouts of semi-automatic fire.
3. Enemy is within comprehensible sight and - nevermind they just dusted you with a single full-auto burst.

150 base HP only matters at the middle scenario, but even then that gives you a slightly longer moment of survivability - because they've got your cover zeroed in, and trying to run into a new position just gets you whittled down by semi-automatic trickle. I've tried precharging my beam in CQC but nah, full-auto vomit kills instantly regardless.

The only exception to this has been the one time where I managed to beam the same OTA sniper three times (who didn't die btw) in C24, but only because 1. His silhouette was obvious, 2. He had literally zero cover unless he rappelled away to heal, and 3. He had literally zero room to move around on his firing position without rappeling.

Of course, my experience probably isn't indicative of the entire faction, given how vorts seem to be some sort of sniper boogieman in spite of my undoubtedly negative K/D ratio, so it's not like I wish to completely dismiss any chance of nerfs. After all, as bad as I am at s2k, it probably wouldn't affect me if beam damage over distance was adjusted to be less "instant death at any range" or whatever it is that's unfair about the SWEP.

 

[Rabid]

Of course, my experience probably isn't indicative of the entire faction, given how vorts seem to be some sort of sniper boogieman in spite of my undoubtedly negative K/D ratio, so it's not like I wish to completely dismiss any chance of nerfs. After all, as bad as I am at s2k, it probably wouldn't affect me if beam damage over distance was adjusted to be less "instant death at any range" or whatever it is that's unfair about the SWEP.

The main thing that makes vorts lethal is mostly when you can park yourself in one position and never stop clicking, preferably with more than one vort and lots of rebels nearby.

Even the mere threat of a vort getting lucky and hitting you is usually enough to send people sprinting for cover or get them to keep their heads down, and rebels backing you up means its harder for you to be focussed down specifically.

But tbh I don't think Vorts especially need 'nerfing' for the reasons you listed - they're still remarkably frail and can't use armor.

 

[FieldersNL]

There's only a few times I performed a succesful vort sniping party with @rob

Other times we were outgunned, outnumbered.

Vorts should stay the way they are, as they suffer vital seconds between each vortbeam and they can't utilize high fire rate weaponry that are just as deadly.

 

[Tinbe]

The main thing that makes Vorts lethal is mostly when you can park yourself in one position and never stop clicking, preferably with more than one Vort with lots of rebels nearby.

That's how you get turned into a bullet pincushion, because spamming beam deprives you of the ability to run. People underestimate how accurate their guns are at longer ranges. Imagine killing an unarmed bluesuit; trivially easy, slightly more difficult if they're further away. Now imagine that same bluesuit can survive two more bullets... not much of a change.

Some may think that's an unfair comparison, but no. It's very difficult to pinpoint where gunfire comes from at "distances vortigaunts are most dangerous at." There's basically never any discernible direction for sound of gunfire, everybody wears camoflage, no visible muzzle flashes, and trying to trace where bullet sprites come from - or peeking in general - just exposes you to semiauto pitterpatter. At that point, you might as well be an unarmed bluesuit watching everybody else partake in an actual shootout.

I'm sure this is where some zased s2k connoisseur slaps me in the face and says "It's not our fault you suck at s2k too much to understand how your kind are unfun to fight against," in which case...
Neat.

 

[Ron]

Don't forget the fact the combine sniper can one tap anyone

I’ve seen this said several times, but, it is a one shot on headshot only. Same as an m40 for someone at 100/100.

 

[Deleted member 7969]

There's only a few times I performed a succesful vort sniping party with @rob

Other times we were outgunned, outnumbered.

Vorts should stay the way they are, as they suffer vital seconds between each vortbeam and they can't utilize high fire rate weaponry that are just as deadly.

Yep,

Vortigaunts:

• can't use any secondary weapons
• don't have armour
• have wider hitboxes than any other class
• immediately give away their position when they snipe

This, obviously, makes them super vulnerable. They get melted down much quicker than rebels & soldiers because of their wide hitbox & lack of armour.

Compared to the two other class of snipers, they're the weakest link.

I'm not against the damage fall-off change though, it could help - but I don't know how hard it'll be to implement considering how old some of the Vortigaunt code is.

Believe me, I've been sniped by Vortigaunts - a lot - it has never angered me or made me think "that's kinda unfair".

 

[bilack]

I’ve seen this said several times, but, it is a one shot on headshot only. Same as an m40 for someone at 100/100.

But not the same as an M40 for someone at 150/150

 

[Flippy]

I’ve seen this said several times, but, it is a one shot on headshot only. Same as an m40 for someone at 100/100.

Yeah to be clear, I am talking about headshots. It's why I said it's a two hit outside of cops, as cops have 100/100.