Accepted Timur Morozov (a hero (?) )

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Fyrdraca

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Your Steam Name: joshydarroch

Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:32540407


Character Name: Timur Morozov

Member of staff who banned your character: Unsure (likely the killer) Edit: shad

Character/Player who carried out the PK (If known): Jasper 'Vauxhall Corsa'

Describe how your character died:
In the midst of an altercation where-in a friend and battle-buddy of Timur's was knocked unconscious and in the process of being hauled away, (perhaps) a few characters aimed their weapons at Timur to prevent him from reacting in what they seemingly imagined would be a violent way.

Jasper may have been one of these individuals who raised their guns , or may not have been. At that moment he had essentially no angle of lethally killing myself. In the midst of this debaucle , he did a /me involving simply walking over closer , around the bend of the wall so he had a clear angle, weapon now raised (or previously still I'm unsure) - walking to a close distance mind, a position with near no chance of missing, in-front of many members of the resistance including those in Timur's cell and others - before firing.

Why do you believe your PK is invalid?: Because I pose that if he were to simply aim his weapon, and then fire it and hit Timur's head - he would be dead. But his action involved walking from where he was to essentially half a meter infront of Timur , round a slight bend. Timur and Jasper are in a feud, at odds - perhaps enemies. I believe that as I did myself , Timur would see him walking right to him, weapon raised, and perhaps react in movement and incur a lesser-injury or miss, especially from the position they were in. Jasper did this entire thing in one movement, as I posted a reactionary /me , he simply S2Ked me and Timur was perma'd. So essentially /me kills. I know that 'you can't dodge bullets'. But you CAN see a clear situation where a man's about to attempt to give you a bullet, and react - especially a experienced fighter such as he is. I believe it was probably himself that did the perma.


Date of occurrence: 15, 20 minutes ago. 12.00am GMT

Evidence (screenshots, logs): Unfortunately my console is full of errors or I'd gladly show.

Any other parties involved: Many people who were present at the scene, perhaps not involved.

Misc details: I'm trying not to make any accusations, but I'll say that it came across as out of pocket and perhaps malicious. Timur and Jasper had a feud , yes , where in Timur has hit the man with his rifle on one occasion and punched him in the stomach in a seperate one - so perhaps there's motive. Jasper had been denying Timur access to 'Lambda' supplies because of this and , before this scene , had chosen to deny them to the entire BB cell. The very besiegers of the city. So perhaps his feelings were clear and there was plenty motive.

I disagree. I think the whole character has the feel of a self-insert , and I wonder if he was OOCly frustrated by the happenings and decided 'fuck you , kill character, be PKed' . Could easily be wrong , but I wonder. I can completely understand why this would be denied because to some it may seem cut and dry - a man was shot - but I feel absolutely compelled to fight this distasteful PK. I think the feud between rebels was good RP, and I'm annoyed that the development of Timur was instantly suddenly denied in such a bad spirited way , I had good things in mind for him, and I feel like this was a big 'fuck you' to RP and perhaps myself/Timur as a character, for whatever reason.
 
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Fyrdraca

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I will also mention that I have a witness statement (and could acquire such) of an individual who witnessed this and also doubts the authenticity of this PK, and the actions involved: in particular whether Jasper's weapon was readied in text prior. Statement which I have permission to post.
 

Limeao

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I did what I thought my character would do. I don't hold any ill will towards you man, I've got no OOC beef.
As for the 'Had to walk to shoot me', I did a /me of walking up to you, and then shooting you- and, from where I was standing before I even did that /me, I could have shot you from there. I just thought walking up to you would have been most interesting for everyone else. Either way, I'd still have shot you.

The whole 'Just S2K'D', I don't think is really a valid argument for it being invalid if that's what you were trying to say. You doing /me dodge was a bit lame, and I got told OOCly to just shot you there and then.

Jasper gave Timur multiple chances, you could have left him alone- you could have apologised. There was many routes you could have taken. I was also told IC, that you were plotting to rob and also kill me- and so I acted on what I think Jasper would have done.

That's all I've really got to say frankly. Good luck with the appeal my man.
 
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Limeao

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I will also mention that I have a witness statement (and could acquire such) of an individual who witnessed this and also doubts the authenticity of this PK, and the actions involved: in particular whether Jasper's weapon was readied in text prior. Statement which I have permission to post.

I'm pretty sure I did a /me of taking out my pistol,- another for raising, and a third for shooting you. I'm sure someone could check logs to prove me right or wrong.

Also, I wasn't the one to run the PK command.
 
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Fyrdraca

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I'm pretty sure I did a /me of taking out my pistol,- another for raising, and a third for shooting you. I'm sure someone could check logs to prove me right or wrong.

Also, I wasn't the one to run the PK command.

Ah fair enough, perhaps my statements of malicious intent and self-PK are unwarranted then. I still don't think you had much of a shot, if any from your original spot realistically, and if I'm wrong it definitely wouldn't of been insta-kill. And yeah I guess the logs will tell. I wouldn't call it just a /me dodge either. When you have an action such as you did I think there's some leeway for perception and preventative action.

And yeah, sure there were other ways our characters relationships coulda developed but obviously I just play Timur according to his character and how he perceives situations. If you heard that ICly, sure some more motive there, but is it really realistic for Jasper to waltz up and shoot an unarmed man , execution style, right infront of a large percentage of the resistance pop because of some rumours, some insulting and getting hit twice?

Perhaps so , I can't say , but that's not in question I guess. Bad play in my opinion though.

I also question whoever told you OOCly to just shoot, didn't see anything in chat at the time. That's stupid though imo.
 

Toriwarior30055

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I did what I thought my character would do. I don't hold any ill will towards you man, I've got no OOC beef.
As for the 'Had to walk to shoot me', I did a /me of walking up to you, and then shooting you- and, from where I was standing before I even did that /me, I could have shot you from there. I just thought walking up to you would have been most interesting for everyone else. Either way, I'd still have shot you.

The whole 'Just S2K'D', I don't think is really a valid argument for it being invalid if that's what you were trying to say. You doing /me dodge was a bit lame, and I got told OOCly to just shot you there and then.

Jasper gave Timur multiple chances, you could have left him alone- you could have apologised. There was many routes you could have taken. I was also told IC, that you were plotting to rob and also kill me- and so I acted on what I think Jasper would have done.

That's all I've really got to say frankly. Good luck with the appeal my man.
Who told you to just S2K him regardless of his /me?
 

Limeao

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Who told you to just S2K him regardless of his /me?

I think it was 'Cy' @shad could be wrong though, I got PM'd it. I'd have done it regardless of the PM, doing /me dodges, was only gonna end in some OOC argument.
 

shad

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I think it was 'Cy' @shad could be wrong though, I got PM'd it. I'd have done it regardless of the PM, doing /me dodges, was only gonna end in some OOC argument.
yeah it was me

he tried to do some bullet-dodging rp lmao

my pm was after you actually killed him though

[23:03:55] Jasper 'Vauxhall Corsa' Maskelyne has killed Timur Morozov with ix_usp9mm.

[23:03:58] 'Cy' used command '/PM jasper no lol dont let him dodge a bullet'.
 
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FreeSpy

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Can I ask specifically what was the situation beforehand that allowed this specific situation to fester?

Snip

Figured it out.
 

FreeSpy

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Right - For my own sake, whoever has the logging feature enabled and has been part of this situation, if you are able, can you provide me the logs from the following dates?

29 and 30th of march

To allow for me to see prior midnight GMT, and see some more context to the situation
 

Limeao

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Out of interest, who told you to just s2k me anyway?
Cy PM'd me a second after I shot you, that I should just shoot you. I gunned you down because you tried to dodge a bullet to the head, which from my experience always results in a big OOC debate. At the time, I thought it'd be better to argue such in a PK appeal, rather than wasting everyone else's time. Doing /me dodges IMO is a bit lame. Even if the dodge was allowed, there was nothing to stop me from just shooting you again. In the long run, the result would have been the same.
 

FreeSpy

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Cy PM'd me a second after I shot you, that I should just shoot you. I gunned you down because you tried to dodge a bullet to the head, which from my experience always results in a big OOC debate. At the time, I thought it'd be better to argue such in a PK appeal, rather than wasting everyone else's time. Doing /me dodges IMO is a bit lame. Even if the dodge was allowed, there was nothing to stop me from just shooting you again. In the long run, the result would have been the same.
Cy pm'd you to not allow him to dodge.

Because something seems lame does not mean it is not allowed. Not to mention you performing two actions in one. This to me seems more like a lack of mutual respect in s2rp more than anything, and not to mention this exact issue happening in another pk appeal.

Also to not mention the inherent extreme escalation from you attacking his friend, and only his friend, keeping Tim at bay to not allow him to interfere, to then shooting him. If you wanted him dead before why not capture him too?
 
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Limeao

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Cy pm'd you to not allow him to dodge.

Because something seems lame does not mean it is not allowed. Not to mention you performing two actions in one. This to me seems more like a lack of mutual respect in s2rp more than anything, and not to mention this exact issue happening in another pk appeal.

Also to not mention the inherent extreme escalation from you attacking his friend, and only his friend, keeping Tim at bay to not allow him to interfere, to then shooting him. If you wanted him dead before why not capture him too?

I don't know what or who you're referring to when you say 'Attacking his friend'. Only person I attacked in that situation physically was when I shot Timur. I'll admit, the way I went about it could have been done better, I'll chalk that up to it being late and it's also not something I do often. However, I still feel that the reasoning for Timurs death is valid, it wasn't like Jasper didn't give the man any chances.

After hearing that Timur had threatened to kill Jasper, it was the straw that broke the camels back. Shooting him in public was intentional,- If I wanted to I could have waited and shot him when he was alone, or from a distance. When the others went for Carl, I seen it as an opportunity to make it clear you don't go around beating on your supplier. I also didn't know that they were capturing them,- when Carl threatened to kill some other guy, I thought in that situation they were just going to kill him too.

I don't think I've much else to add tbh.
 

FreeSpy

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I don't know what or who you're referring to when you say 'Attacking his friend'. Only person I attacked in that situation physically was when I shot Timur. I'll admit, the way I went about it could have been done better, I'll chalk that up to it being late and it's also not something I do often. However, I still feel that the reasoning for Timurs death is valid, it wasn't like Jasper didn't give the man any chances.
The person I refer to is Carl.

I don't find the death valid, considering in the circumstances he didn't really... do anything.

After hearing that Timur had threatened to kill Jasper, it was the straw that broke the camels back. Shooting him in public was intentional,- If I wanted to I could have waited and shot him when he was alone, or from a distance. When the others went for Carl, I seen it as an opportunity to make it clear you don't go around beating on your supplier. I also didn't know that they were capturing them,- when Carl threatened to kill some other guy, I thought in that situation they were just going to kill him too.


This... is problematic to say the least. Especially considering this situation happened with Carl and I denied PK auths specifically because it is just that, a threat. In that other instance, I specifically told the people requesting it to attempt to confront him, and ask him why he was saying what he was saying. A kill in self defense would evidently be good, and at the time we did not have the exile system and other ways of dealing with things like these. Considering the escalation found here, especially on something you cannot really confirm, I can't let a PK stick on this reasoning, even if I ignored the mishandling of the execution of the PK, considering the case of powergaming.


So on this note I will accept this PK appeal with an NLR + Refund. No void on the kill, but considering Timur didn't really do anything to warrant a kill, I will refund it. For the future reference, please have a 3rd party observe kills etc, makes things easier to handle. For said 3rd party staff members, please be aware of the rules on s2rp and s2k, and make sure people stick to one. Especially in these types of situations.
 
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