Valve & What gets to be on Steam

Blackquill

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Figured I'd make a thread about this since it's blowing up in the media and literally everyone here uses steam or used it at one point:

EJ said:
Recently there's been a bunch of community discussion around what kind of games we're allowing onto the Steam Store. As is often the case, the discussion caused us to spend some time examining what we're doing, why we're doing it, and how we could be doing it better. Decision making in this space is particularly challenging, and one that we've really struggled with. Contrary to many assumptions, this isn't a space we've automated - humans at Valve are very involved, with groups of people looking at the contents of every controversial title submitted to us. Similarly, people have falsely assumed these decisions are heavily affected by our payment processors, or outside interest groups. Nope, it's just us grappling with a really hard problem.

Unfortunately, our struggling has resulted in a bunch of confusion among our customers, developer partners, and even our own employees. So we've spent some time thinking about where we want to be on this, and we'd like to talk about it now. But we also think it's critical to talk about how we've arrived at our position, so you can understand the trade-offs we're making.

The challenge is that this problem is not simply about whether or not the Steam Store should contain games with adult or violent content. Instead, it's about whether the Store contains games within an entire range of controversial topics - politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on. In addition, there are controversial topics that are particular to games - like what even constitutes a "game", or what level of quality is appropriate before something can be released.

Common questions we ask ourselves when trying to make decisions didn't help in this space. What do players wish we would do? What would make them most happy? What's considered acceptable discussion / behavior / imagery varies significantly around the world, socially and legally. Even when we pick a single country or state, the legal definitions around these topics can be too broad or vague to allow us to avoid making subjective and interpretive decisions. The harsh reality of this space, that lies at the root of our dilemma, is that there is absolutely no way we can navigate it without making some of our players really mad.

In addition, Valve is not a small company - we're not a homogeneous group. The online debates around these topics play out inside Valve as well. We don't all agree on what deserves to be on the Store. So when we say there's no way to avoid making a bunch of people mad when making decisions in this space, we're including our own employees, their families and their communities in that.

So we ended up going back to one of the principles in the forefront of our minds when we started Steam, and more recently as we worked on Steam Direct to open up the Store to many more developers: Valve shouldn't be the ones deciding this. If you're a player, we shouldn't be choosing for you what content you can or can't buy. If you're a developer, we shouldn't be choosing what content you're allowed to create. Those choices should be yours to make. Our role should be to provide systems and tools to support your efforts to make these choices for yourself, and to help you do it in a way that makes you feel comfortable.

With that principle in mind, we've decided that the right approach is to allow everything onto the Steam Store, except for things that we decide are illegal, or straight up trolling. Taking this approach allows us to focus less on trying to police what should be on Steam, and more on building those tools to give people control over what kinds of content they see. We already have some tools, but they're too hidden and not nearly comprehensive enough. We are going to enable you to override our recommendation algorithms and hide games containing the topics you're not interested in. So if you don't want to see anime games on your Store, you'll be able to make that choice. If you want more options to control exactly what kinds of games your kids see when they browse the Store, you'll be able to do that. And it's not just players that need better tools either - developers who build controversial content shouldn't have to deal with harassment because their game exists, and we'll be building tools and options to support them too.

As we mentioned earlier, laws vary around the world, so we're going to need to handle this on a case-by-case basis. As a result, we will almost certainly continue to struggle with this one for a while. Our current thinking is that we're going to push developers to further disclose any potentially problematic content in their games during the submission process, and cease doing business with any of them that refuse to do so honestly. We'll still continue to perform technical evaluations of submissions, rejecting games that don't pass until their issues have been resolved.

So what does this mean? It means that the Steam Store is going to contain something that you hate, and don't think should exist. Unless you don't have any opinions, that's guaranteed to happen. But you're also going to see something on the Store that you believe should be there, and some other people will hate it and want it not to exist.

It also means that the games we allow onto the Store will not be a reflection of Valve’s values, beyond a simple belief that you all have the right to create & consume the content you choose. The two points above apply to all of us at Valve as well. If you see something on Steam that you think should not exist, it's almost certain that someone at Valve is right there with you.

To be explicit about that - if we allow your game onto the Store, it does not mean we approve or agree with anything you're trying to say with it. If you're a developer of offensive games, this isn't us siding with you against all the people you're offending. There will be people throughout the Steam community who hate your games, and hope you fail to find an audience, and there will be people here at Valve who feel exactly the same way. However, offending someone shouldn't take away your game's voice. We believe you should be able to express yourself like everyone else, and to find others who want to play your game. But that's it.

In the short term, we won't be making significant changes to what's arriving on Steam until we've finished some of the tools we've described in this post. As we've hopefully managed to convey, navigating these issues is messy and complicated. Countries and societies change their laws and cultural norms over time. We'll be working on this for the foreseeable future, both in terms of what products we're allowing, what guidelines we communicate, and the tools we're providing to developers and players.

To give a quick TL;DR:
  • Steam want the users of its service to decide what they let on steam
  • They will only stop games that are either Trolling or illegal; allowing anything else
  • They express that they don't want Steam to represent Valve as a company' values

Thoughts?
 
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Kafe

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you can't just pretend your largest revenue source 'does not represent your values' when you operate and profit from them.
 

Blackquill

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you can't just pretend your largest revenue source 'does not represent your values' when you operate and profit from them.
I think they're speaking politically - as in they don't want to run a service that is politically motivated in some way

EJ makes several points about how if you think smth shouldn't be on steam, at least one person at valve prolly agrees, etc.

They're caught between a rock and a hard place with this imo
 

Kafe

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I think they're speaking politically - as in they don't want to run a service that is politically motivated in some way

EJ makes several points about how if you think smth shouldn't be on steam, at least one person at valve prolly agrees, etc.

They're caught between a rock and a hard place with this imo
for me it's not the politics. Trying to meet a basic standard of quality is what I want.
 

Blackquill

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for me it's not the politics. Trying to meet a basic standard of quality is what I want.
Oh totally agree mate, 100%

But this has been spurred by the recent decisions from valve - the main two being:
  • The removal and censor of several well known games with adult content like Huniepop and the like
  • The removal of that School shooter game
 

Kafe

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Oh totally agree mate, 100%

But this has been spurred by the recent decisions from valve - the main two being:
  • The removal and censor of several well known games with adult content like Huniepop and the like
  • The removal of that School shooter game
Admittedly the visual novel situation was confusing to me, they were games that had been on the market for years, most of them past their prime and had already been widely accepted by people. And then suddenly they tried to bring them down, which was what rubbed me the wrong way.
 

Blackquill

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Admittedly the visual novel situation was confusing to me, they were games that had been on the market for years, most of them past their prime and had already been widely accepted by people. And then suddenly they tried to bring them down, which was what rubbed me the wrong way.
I think it's probably the School Shooter situation that has tipped this to boiling point

While the VN situation didn't make much sense, it wasn't really getting much media attention but when the School Shooter game situation happened, valve were thrust into the media spotlight.
 

Kafe

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I think it's probably the School Shooter situation that has tipped this to boiling point

While the VN situation didn't make much sense, it wasn't really getting much media attention but when the School Shooter game situation happened, valve were thrust into the media spotlight.
It's kind of their own fault really when they're just letting things past that pay for the cost.
At least with Hatred Valve could dodge some of the flames since it was a greenlight project, meaning it was pending public and official approval.

And now it seems what they learned was to make it easier for the same problem to occur?
 

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Valve is doing what any games company would in these situations tbh; saving their own skin. Not to say that they're wrong to do so and I can agree with a lot of what they say cause if they started endorsing some of this shit it'd be suicide-by-media.
 

Blackquill

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Valve is doing what any games company would in these situations tbh; saving their own skin. Not to say that they're wrong to do so and I can agree with a lot of what they say cause if they started endorsing some of this shit it'd be suicide-by-media.
Ironically the media hates them for this
 
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Blackquill

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3sgfnpJ.jpg


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Goatson

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mfw even Desura had in general better quality games being sold than Steam has now

what happened
 

Kafe

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The other big issue is that the quantity of things that come into steam creates diminishing returns fast for anyone that is not AAA or a well known middle market game, smaller games and indies get choked to death in current system Steam lives in. Which to me is a real shame.

Personally I got to the point ages ago where I stopped buying games on steam directly, I mostly just use Humble to buy keys since that market place is under control, and at least I get to send some dosh to charities as well in the process.
 
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Goatson

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The other big issue is that the quantity of things that come into steam creates diminishing returns fast for anyone that is not AAA or a well known middle market game, smaller games and indies get choked to death in current system Steam lives in. Which to me is a real shame.

Personally I got to the point ages ago where I stopped buying games on steam directly, I mostly just use Humble to buy keys since that market place is under control, and at least I get to send some dosh to charities as well in the process.
Plus Humble tends to feature indie titles that deserve recognition on their front page rather than the latest AAA shit, DLC and pre-orders.
 
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Angel

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Seems like blame shifting to not have accountability over pissy sjw reporters crying about a "rape culture" game being on steam
 

Kafe

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DfJp9kmVMAUY7I6.jpg

Relax though, this was from a parody twitter account
 

Husky

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DfJp9kmVMAUY7I6.jpg

Relax though, this was from a parody twitter account
I'm fairly certian if I make a game called 'Hitler simulator 1930" and have QTE of the Nuremeburg rally and a focus tree of the holocaust I'd get branded as an obvious troll game and removed.
 

Blackquill

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They removed aids simulator so they're not gonna allow racist shit iirc
 

Postino

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Steam Direct was advertised as a viable, working alternative compared to Greenlight yet it proved itself to be just worse; all I really want is to browse a videogame store without shit meme games, shit games developed in a matter of minutes with free Unity assets and hentai "games" (if you can call them that)

I'm not really sure on how Direct works, but Greenlight at least allowed a wee bit of "natural selection" of which games get in and which don't thanks to community feedback.