Resolved Băgăreţ's PK Appeal

[Sil]

For reference, win or lose, this thread should help sort some things out hopefully. I was also advised to make it on request of @Appetite Ruining Kebab

Your Steam Name: Sil
Your Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:87273099

Character Name: 'Băgăreţ'
Member of staff who banned your character: Not sure on the staff name but their character was called 'Red'
Character/Player who carried out the PK (If known): Hyun and Boris Drugov

Describe how your character died: Got kidnapped and ISIS'd from my bakery after Roger Berkhoff @fabevil was executed on TV.
Why do you believe your PK is invalid?: As a personal standpoint, I don't think an outright PK was really warranted in this situation. They wanted to take one of NG's and get their own back for the death of Roger, whom I had no ill will towards and had infact in the past made use of a vortigaunt artefact to heal his badly injured leg. I get their struggles, trust me, but I was already in the process of self-exile from the city out to the QZ as they bagged me, taking a limb clean off. Was also shot in the back of the head by Boris, wanting to play it off as blinding one of my eyes and severing ties to the vortessence, though Hyun (@Anti-tankspy ) sought to just decapitate me after the shooting.

What I'm asking for isn't a removal of character development or progress. I don't want to impact anyone's story by coming back after being taken out of the picture. But, I don't want to be dead, especially when Băgăreţ isn't even allowed to be affiliated with NG. The injuries and long-lasting effects, that stuff's cool, but ending my RP and taking me out of the picture (especially after things really just started to get going for me) isn't really fun for anyone other than the few who really violently wanted me dead dead.

Date of occurrence: Today, 17/08/2023 at around 22:40~
Evidence (screenshots, logs): Not sure what to put here for this. Logs start around 22:40, end at 23:01
Any other parties involved: @Appetite Ruining Kebab requested I make an appeal
Misc details: No animosity held to any party, just want to have the best RP for both sides

 

[Sassyy]

Good Day,

I was the one who helped coordinate the capture of yourself and I can tell you the death of Roger had nothing to do with the kidnapping/execution.

A good bit ago you helped the Guard mind fuck myself and Hyun which IC I have been on a tangent about ever since, even to a point where it got me kicked out of ATLAS IC etc.

This was the main reason for doing it which I've been trying to do but until now I didn't gain the support of other cells/rebels.

Just thought I'd mention it as I had a little read through your appeal and it seems you think this was retaliation for the Guard killing Roger.

As I said Roger wasn't the concern in this situation as it had been getting planned since well before Rogers capture and execution.

Hope this clears stuff up.

 

[Sil]

Good Day,

I was the one who helped coordinate the capture of yourself and I can tell you the death of Roger had nothing to do with the kidnapping/execution.

A good bit ago you helped the Guard mind fuck myself and Hyun which IC I have been on a tangent about ever since, even to a point where it got me kicked out of ATLAS IC etc.

This was the main reason for doing it which I've been trying to do but until now I didn't gain the support of other cells/rebels.

Just thought I'd mention it as I had a little read through your appeal and it seems you think this was retaliation for the Guard killing Roger.

As I said Roger wasn't the concern in this situation as it had been getting planned since well before Rogers capture and execution.

Hope this clears stuff up.

Thing is, you and I are both aware that situation was done you had full IC and OOC permission to say no to. That was established loud and clear at the beginning, and whilst I said NG may bare consequences on you if you say no, that is merely my own speculation. You wouldn't be executed for it, probably only imprisoned for longer or have your gun taken from you.

There was never any animosity or ill intent intended from the probing. I made most of it up on the spot, and it was simply to show information in aid of helping the case. I never RPed there being any serious issues from it, and even decided 'oh sure I'll speed it up for you guys cos one of you wants to leave early'; I just sat down, played some neat music, and did some /mes to help the guard out was all. I am not responsible for if you wanted to suffer IC consequences for something you said 'Ok!' to. It's not fair for you to want to gat and execute me over something that I never even said would have lasting effects, and that you were fully compliant to.

 

[Ron]

Member of staff who banned your character: Not sure on the staff name but their character was called 'Red'

I just ran the command, good luck on the appeal.

 

[Sassyy]

Thing is, you and I are both aware that situation was done you had full IC and OOC permission to say no to. That was established loud and clear at the beginning, and whilst I said NG may bare consequences on you if you say no, that is merely my own speculation. You wouldn't be executed for it, probably only imprisoned for longer or have your gun taken from you.

There was never any animosity or ill intent intended from the probing. I made most of it up on the spot, and it was simply to show information in aid of helping the case. I never RPed there being any serious issues from it, and even decided 'oh sure I'll speed it up for you guys cos one of you wants to leave early'; I just sat down, played some neat music, and did some /mes to help the guard out was all. I am not responsible for if you wanted to suffer IC consequences for something you said 'Ok!' to. It's not fair for you to want to gat and execute me over something that I never even said would have lasting effects, and that you were fully compliant to.

Being told by the Guard "You can refuse but it may have consequences" while restrained with a bunch of guys with guns around you kinda sounds like strongarming to me.

Obv OOCly I consented cause I wanted to see it all but ICly it felt like we didn't have much choice due to being restrained and having a good amount of guys with AK's around you, it seemed like do it or face further consequences so I went with the lesser of two evils.

Best of luck with your appeal but I just thought I'd give a bit of context as that was my reasoning for everything, other people involved may have other reasons but as I done a bit of the talking I thought I'd chime in.

 

[Sil]

Being told by the Guard "You can refuse but it may have consequences" while restrained with a bunch of guys with guns around you kinda sounds like strongarming to me.

Obv OOCly I consented cause I wanted to see it all but ICly it felt like we didn't have much choice due to being restrained and having a good amount of guys with AK's around you, it seemed like do it or face further consequences so I went with the lesser of two evils.

Best of luck with your appeal but I just thought I'd give a bit of context as that was my reasoning for everything, other people involved may have other reasons but as I done a bit of the talking I thought I'd chime in.

Fair enough.

I'd like to hear at least @Anti-tankspy 's perspective, since his take to it was a lot more brutal

 

[SmoothAsMilk]

Hello, I am writing this from my jail cell while I await potential execution.

As a personal standpoint, I don't think an outright PK was really warranted in this situation

The situation was insanely hectic, with people yelling, fighting, and overall insanity. However, Băgăreţ was calm and tried to de-escalate the situation, but to no avail. I forget who said it, but I think it was the bald person. They said, "He dies here tonight," and many agreed. ICly, I could get people wanting to kill a guardsman sympathizer, but OOCly, I believe the PK was inevitable, which in my eyes is kind of just unfair, especially since I can't recall a single time Băgăreţ was rude or anything but a genuine individual

Was also shot in the back of the head by Boris

I did this to simply end the situation. People were fighting just to kill the vort, and I saw the situation as basically just torturing the player, essentially teasing them about the PK. I wanted to end the misery and walk away. I felt the feeling of a PK being dangled over my head shortly after the events, and it felt terrible.

though Hyun sought to just decapitate me after the shooting

This honestly shocked me, I have no idea why this was needed when we easily could have just dropped the body off at the front of the PD no need to go the extra mile.

isn't really fun for anyone other than the few who really violently wanted me dead dead

This is true, as I said it seemed everyone in the warehouse was filled with bloodlust specifically to PK a player, which I never really got. It honestly feels like if Sil had said nothing it would have had the same outcome, I genuinely think he had 0% of survival

I'm tired hopefully I helped out, good night

 

[Maytree]

Heyo. I like to add my opinions here. I think Bagaret being PK'd alone for the sole purpose of being involved in standard (but recently discontinued) question procedure strikes as out-of-propionate to me. I have my feelings this PK reason was recently obtained due to Bagaret's involvement of the s2k standoffs (to which he died in all of them to my knowledge), but I would still like to add context to the situation (from my point of view).

Unless this was a different scenario entirely, I was the one who ordered Hyun and Sassy's arrest after me and my patrol had caught them being ontop of the PD's garage building and being extremely armed. This was the moment when I sought out the Vortigaunts to assist the interrogation, and I picked Bagaret due to him being the only Vortigaunt player online during the moment. All of this was partially fueled by a confrontation I had with Anti-Tankspy about their arrest.

I ordered Bagaret to mind-probe Hyun and Sassy, to which it led to the Vortigaunt deeming both of them innocent. Despite the suspicious cirumstances of the armed individuals were facing the PD courtyard, and ontop of the Garage Building via access of the traintracks, Bargaret announced to us that the rebels were looking out for the National Guard and the streets by hunting down a lurking Panthereye. We compensated the rebels out of my pocket, and we set them all free.

If anything, assuming Sassy or Hyun were contemplating (or knew that other rebels had been contemplating) to overthrow the National Guard due to recent events, Bagaret saved those rebels from getting prosecuted or even executed. With that said, I think PKing Bagaret was highly overkill.

 

[Anti-tankspy]

Fair enough.

I'd like to hear at least @Anti-tankspy 's perspective, since his take to it was a lot more brutal

when sassy's 'mindfuck' happened, hyun was very much initially against harming bargaret in anyway, which some people (sassy himself and @contained postal dude can attest to), to the point where it culminated in hyun literally throwing sassy out of atlas and sending him a clear threat that there'd be problems if bargaret was harmed

hyun only allowed, and participated in the death of bargaret after a lot more individuals eventually agreed with sassy about offing bargaret and went off to snatch him anyway, hyun's dismemberment and decapitation of the poor vort was out of pure rage after seeing one of his oldest friends from before geneva get hanged on a lamp post and (although it was voided after bargaret died) torched. hyun was also further enraged by the fact that an innocent guy got kidnapped because of rebel actions against NG and that he 'apologized' to him and a few others in the last moments of his life

a breakthrough for hyun as those who rped with him know that he's normally a calm and collected individual, never before has he shown this level of violence. even some of the armbands were surprised LOL

either way I kind of felt the PK for bargaret was inevitable either way as it's been clearly shown that the character is a close consultant of NG and was seen helping them on a few occassions, bargaret being shot despite having no major involvement in things (i heard him getting called '''''private''''' once, though) was kind of a payback to roger (who also had no major involvement in things) and that was it

i personally would've prefered a less-deathly way of doing things though, maybe kidnap the character and interrogate them, or physically hurt bargaret, etc. but ending the character's life. unfortunately by the time i got there everyone already made the decision that the chef must die

gl with your appeal, i personally don't mind a void/re-do if staff are cool with it

 

[Sil]

when sassy's 'mindfuck' happened, hyun was very much initially against harming bargaret in anyway, which some people (sassy himself and @contained postal dude can attest to), to the point where it culminated in hyun literally throwing sassy out of atlas and sending him a clear threat that there'd be problems if bargaret was harmed

hyun only allowed, and participated in the death of bargaret after a lot more individuals eventually agreed with sassy about offing bargaret and went off to snatch him anyway, hyun's dismemberment and decapitation of the poor vort was out of pure rage after seeing one of his oldest friends from before geneva get hanged on a lamp post and (although it was voided after bargaret died) torched. hyun was also further enraged by the fact that an innocent guy got kidnapped because of rebel actions against NG and that he 'apologized' to him and a few others in the last moments of his life

a breakthrough for hyun as those who rped with him know that he's normally a calm and collected individual, never before has he shown this level of violence. even some of the armbands were surprised LOL

either way I kind of felt the PK for bargaret was inevitable either way as it's been clearly shown that the character is a close consultant of NG and was seen helping them on a few occassions, bargaret being shot despite having no major involvement in things (i heard him getting called '''''private''''' once, though) was kind of a payback to roger (who also had no major involvement in things) and that was it

i personally would've prefered a less-deathly way of doing things though, maybe kidnap the character and interrogate them, or physically hurt bargaret, etc. but ending the character's life. unfortunately by the time i got there everyone already made the decision that the chef must die

gl with your appeal, i personally don't mind a void/re-do if staff are cool with it

In the end I’m not wanting to have that whole incident removed from the records, cos right up until the point of full death things were looking quite alright for my own development. Missing half an arm, an eye, and having serious brain damage are all things I’d be perfectly fine with continuing with and RPing out. I’d think it would send an even greater message, after all.

Thats what I’m hoping to get from the appeal, honestly. A chance to take that RP and roll with it; I was already on my way to go set up a cluster in the QZ, could make for some fun

 

[FreeSpy]

ou and I are both aware that situation was done you had full IC and OOC permission to say no to. That was established loud and clear at the beginning, and whilst I said NG may bare consequences on you if you say no, that is merely my own speculation. You wouldn't be executed for it, probably only imprisoned for longer or have your gun taken from you.

yeah this doesn't work.

the whole mind reading thing was meant to be used as a flavour thing, and of course for it to happen you needed to have consent from atleast an OOC perspective. Coercing that consent is a bad bad bad thing to do and we've seen an appeal in the beginning of the server of similar nature due to the issue of consent.

Heyo. I like to add my opinions here. I think Bagaret being PK'd alone for the sole purpose of being involved in standard (but recently discontinued) question procedure strikes as out-of-propionate to me. I have my feelings this PK reason was recently obtained due to Bagaret's involvement of the s2k standoffs (to which he died in all of them to my knowledge), but I would still like to add context to the situation (from my point of view).

I'd like to get an overview of this - I don't fully understand how the NG used mind probing and where consequences come from, because as it was clarified in like, month 2 of the server mind probing needs ooc consent and refusal of it cannot be used icly against the player in any capacity. I have not been around for a bit and need context on that part

 

[Maytree]

I'd like to get an overview of this - I don't fully understand how the NG used mind probing and where consequences come from, because as it was clarified in like, month 2 of the server mind probing needs ooc consent and refusal of it cannot be used icly against the player in any capacity. I have not been around for a bit and need context on that part

The mind-probing was fully consented by the rebels in LOOC chat.

 

[FreeSpy]

The mind-probing was fully consented by the rebels in LOOC chat.

That part I understand - The part I don't understand is why was there an implication of consequences if they were not mind-read

 

[Maytree]

That part I understand - The part I don't understand is why was there an implication of consequences if they were not mind-read

We didn't threaten the rebels into allowing the Vortigaunt to mind-probe them. I would've just made the three characters force to stay in the cell until a higher-up flags on to interrogate them. Doing a simple mind-probing would (and has) hasten the interrogation process and would leave both parties without feeling frustrated.

How one of our Sergeants or Lieutenants would've proceeded with dealing the suspects would be up in the air, due to the circumstances what the rebels were doing before getting caught. However, we would not threaten or further escalate a situation if they do not OOCly consent into having their past actions scried.

Maybe's and what-if's aside, we stood civil how we proceeded with mind-probe and nothing distasteful was done. At the end of the day, the people who played the character that the interrogation roleplay hosted by Bagaret was enjoyable. I personally gave them all of my tokens as compensation for the hold-up.

 

[Sil]

That part I understand - The part I don't understand is why was there an implication of consequences if they were not mind-read

All I said was an honest IC perspective of the situation, that there may be consequences if you say no but that they are fully allowed to.

Never intended it as some sort of threat or coercion, I was mostly doing it fully improvised and just wanted to try to be honest about the matter; didn’t know there was any major pre-established for the mind probing since I haven’t been playing since the very first month, and then a little bit afterwards.

 

[Anti-tankspy]

All I said was an honest IC perspective of the situation, that there may be consequences if you say no but that they are fully allowed to.

Never intended it as some sort of threat or coercion, I was mostly doing it fully improvised and just wanted to try to be honest about the matter; didn’t know there was any major pre-established for the mind probing since I haven’t been playing since the very first month, and then a little bit afterwards.

broski

you should've made that clear back then

the 'forced' mindprobe is 80% the reason you're dead lol

 

[Maytree]

i personally would've prefered a less-deathly way of doing things though, maybe kidnap the character and interrogate them, or physically hurt bargaret, etc. but ending the character's life. unfortunately by the time i got there everyone already made the decision that the chef must die

gl with your appeal, i personally don't mind a void/re-do if staff are cool with it

this post aged like milk

broski

you should've made that clear back then

the 'forced' mindprobe is 80% the reason you're dead lol

Dude, Bagaret only mind-probed Hyun because Elijah ordered him to, and he was no position decline. The Vort certainly saved Hyun's life if he hadn't said you were innocent. If anything, this should be PK auths will be logical to be directed to Elijah for demanding Bagaret to mindprobe the three.

 

[ovxy]

As a person who assisted with the execution (provided the pacification kit and ensured it’s carried out), most people had more than enough reason to gat you just for the sole fact of continuously assisting the National Guard; mind-probing, helping them out with assaults, etc. You became kinda infamous for that. The Roger execution only added fuel to the fire, but I didn’t really care about it, only used it as an excuse IC.

The only person that wanted you to stay alive (that I know of) is Firebug, the rest wanted you dead. It’s not like only 1 or 2 people wanted to get rid of you.

This is a simple case of fuck around and find out in my opinion.

 

[Anti-tankspy]

this post aged like milk

what

Dude, Bagaret only mind-probed Hyun because Elijah ordered him to, and he was no position decline. The Vort certainly saved Hyun's life if he hadn't said you were innocent. If anything, this should be PK auths will be logical to be directed to Elijah for demanding Bagaret to mindprobe the three.

with all due respect it's of little concern to me that he was '''''ordered''''', man was still making it publicly known that he's an NG consultant and there was a million methods than one to avoid this happening in the first place, especially that we are able to oocly refuse (which i had no idea about until today, i don't keep an eye on psa thread). this ''consent or consueqence... grr,,'' thing felt EXACTLY like that, strongarming, and this was the result. we were FORCED. had I known we could OOCly say yes/no and be forced anyway I would've probably called for an admin

i'd like to see what @Sassyy has to say about this considering he was the one who acquired the pk auths to my knowledge, it wasn't me and boris who wanted this guy dead fyi

 

[john]

especially when Băgăreţ isn't even allowed to be affiliated with NG

ive seen ic many times when the NG have said "he's one of ours" while helping them i think he made his choice by affiliation and that the pk is valid and not that complicated