Resolved Dr. Deutch's PK Appeal

[Deleted member 61]

first off, hate to do it and look like a lil' bitch by appealing but, since i made that preample, i am either self-aware and not a lil bitch, or self-aware and still a lil bitch.

Your Steam Name: Poopship McGee
Your Steam ID:

Character Name: Dr. Esther Deutch
Member of staff who banned your character: IDK
Character/Player who carried out the PK (If known): IDK

Describe how your character died:
The situation was, the town is under attack by the Combine with gunships, a prisoner is in the cell being interrogated and people are discussing what to do with them. I go off about how being soft on the Combine is going to only end in wasteful death and tragedy, yadda' yadda', don't be kind to the Combine.

These guys are talking about simply scarring him and my character leaves to deal with what's outside and my character comes back with a changed mind and says that the guy has got to die. I pull out a pistol, point it at the prisoner through the cell. A guy that was already in the cell meant to scar his face instead leaps on him to stab him to death and I simply encourage it and only lower my gun when the ex-cop is sufficiently stabbed. Yes, brutal, I know, this character has been living with the Four Tribes and prior to that, Serbians.

Anyways, the situation is sorted. Nobody does anything in response to the man stabbing him to death. The guy starts to leave and I go to reward him for being firm in his justice, I hand him over a makarov and give a small pep talk about how we shouldn't neuter ourselves and we should be more ruthless than the Combine so that the Combine knows not to fuck with us, or at least be intimidated by us, basic psychology, before a vortigaunt standing behind me simply /me 's their vort beam and blows me in the way without much conversation or confrontation, pure executive decision.

I can see why they would do that, but I mean, I already said not to let the prisoner inside the prison because he'd stab them to death, and I was saying that the public would never accept the prisoner living.

Blasted in the back by a schemin' stinkin' lyin' filthy vort', which is a lesson for the folks at home if you ask me.

Why do you believe your PK is invalid?: I don't think it was very climatic or within spirit of the HL2RP2 community in terms of being against PKs as a first solution. Frankly, I felt that the situation unfolded with everybody putting their case on what to do forward and in the end, the person who wanted the prisoner dead the most got their way, which wasn't me, but the prisoner, who to my knowledge suffered no punishment or reprimand for having done so.
I did egg it on, but admittedly, they were going to stab him to death or die trying anyways.

■ Killing someone is strictly in-character and must have a substantial reason for it. Whether NLR or PK is applied is up to the rules and staff intervention if necessary, not player consensus. However, a player may request a PK on their character one-sidedly and willingly, but this should not sway the judgement of the characters’ IC (if someone kills somebody else and it ends up as NLR, that person has still killed someone, and it should have the same weight ICly as a PK; however this does not grant PK authorisation in case this person is punished with death for his actions).

I'd like to know the substantial reasoning that led to a vortigaunt deciding executively to kill somebody on the basis of inciting violence against the Combine, who presumably the vortigaunts are against.

Date of occurrence: January 12
Evidence (screenshots, logs): I disconnected because I didn't think I was going to appeal it, but then I remember that the CP was just an event character and that I don't actually know the vortigaunts reasoning for killing me, so I'd like to hear it.
Any other parties involved: Brandon Red, other guy in 1st Platoon, event character prisoner. @Ond
Misc details: its like, yeah, i get it, but really? I'm not going to argue to hard on this one, it feels kind of BS in terms of the stakes, but I don't doubt that the vortigaunt was playing their character as some humanity loving hippy vort, but again, I don't know. I also hate appeals because they often fuck up character development and that was my biggest concern of appealing

 

[Señor Jaggles]

It seems it's going to take a bit before resistance players get used to dealing with stuff in a way that isn't bashing someone's head with a shovel until they're dead.

I have not read the appeal yet, will do so later tonight in hopes that you may be able to play (with this or a new character) as early as tomorrow if possible.

 

[Ond]

The justification as far as I heard it was "She was a vile serpent" despite the fact that I tore free from the vortigaunt before you ever entered and engaged, in order to brutally murder the kid

It seems a bit weird, yeah - that a vortigaunt would kill someone who simply told someone else to kill the prisoner, considering that they didn't touch the person who did the killing afterwards

I would've done it differently, at least - you weren't an active threat at all, actually you were really passive outside of expressing that the guy needed to be wasted before the whole camp got raided

 

[Ond]

@Maytree was the vortigaunt iirc - I don't know their justification entirely beyond that, might be some inter-character beef or grievance before this happened

 

[Fluffy]

I play 'Lumber', the 1st platoon guy who was there, and from my point of view it was your character that wanted a public hanging, skinning or something cruel done to the cop basically. My character didn't agree at first, he would've rather thought about the actions we should take.

After a bit of thinking and the cop attacking the blue suited guy through the cell, my character decided it would be better off killing him quickly. (this was before the vortigaunt entered the room)

Some information gets exchanged due to the cop being in a life-or-death situation and my character once more changed his mind due to the vortigaunt checking if the guy spoke the truth by using some form of memory checking with vort essence. At this point my character just allowed for the guy to be scarred by the blue suit who had a shiv on him. (the cop was tied up during the vort essense thing.)

Of course things don't go to plan and the event cop gets killed off by the man with the shiv. The vortigaunt tried stopping him, but he failed in the end.

After the killing happend, the guy in the blue suit left the cell and was rewarded for his actions and got his pistol. The vortigaunt disagreed with what just happend and saw Esther as the instigator of the whole situation and saw them as a big threat to the people of the camp. After a short exchange of words between Esther and the blue suited guy, the vort beams her to the void.

Not saying I disagree or agree with a PK but things happend rather quickly and before you knew it someone got killed. Just here to give my POV of the situation and if any more questions rise, I'm down to answer them.

 

[Maytree]

first off, hate to do it and look like a lil' bitch by appealing but, since i made that preample, i am either self-aware and not a lil bitch, or self-aware and still a lil bitch.

Your Steam Name: Poopship McGee
Your Steam ID:

Character Name: Dr. Esther Deutch
Member of staff who banned your character: IDK
Character/Player who carried out the PK (If known): IDK

Describe how your character died:
The situation was, the town is under attack by the Combine with gunships, a prisoner is in the cell being interrogated and people are discussing what to do with them. I go off about how being soft on the Combine is going to only end in wasteful death and tragedy, yadda' yadda', don't be kind to the Combine.

These guys are talking about simply scarring him and my character leaves to deal with what's outside and my character comes back with a changed mind and says that the guy has got to die. I pull out a pistol, point it at the prisoner through the cell. A guy that was already in the cell meant to scar his face instead leaps on him to stab him to death and I simply encourage it and only lower my gun when the ex-cop is sufficiently stabbed. Yes, brutal, I know, this character has been living with the Four Tribes and prior to that, Serbians.

Anyways, the situation is sorted. Nobody does anything in response to the man stabbing him to death. The guy starts to leave and I go to reward him for being firm in his justice, I hand him over a makarov and give a small pep talk about how we shouldn't neuter ourselves and we should be more ruthless than the Combine so that the Combine knows not to fuck with us, or at least be intimidated by us, basic psychology, before a vortigaunt standing behind me simply /me 's their vort beam and blows me in the way without much conversation or confrontation, pure executive decision.

I can see why they would do that, but I mean, I already said not to let the prisoner inside the prison because he'd stab them to death, and I was saying that the public would never accept the prisoner living.

Blasted in the back by a schemin' stinkin' lyin' filthy vort', which is a lesson for the folks at home if you ask me.

Why do you believe your PK is invalid?: I don't think it was very climatic or within spirit of the HL2RP2 community in terms of being against PKs as a first solution. Frankly, I felt that the situation unfolded with everybody putting their case on what to do forward and in the end, the person who wanted the prisoner dead the most got their way, which wasn't me, but the prisoner, who to my knowledge suffered no punishment or reprimand for having done so.
I did egg it on, but admittedly, they were going to stab him to death or die trying anyways.

■ Killing someone is strictly in-character and must have a substantial reason for it. Whether NLR or PK is applied is up to the rules and staff intervention if necessary, not player consensus. However, a player may request a PK on their character one-sidedly and willingly, but this should not sway the judgement of the characters’ IC (if someone kills somebody else and it ends up as NLR, that person has still killed someone, and it should have the same weight ICly as a PK; however this does not grant PK authorisation in case this person is punished with death for his actions).

I'd like to know the substantial reasoning that led to a vortigaunt deciding executively to kill somebody on the basis of inciting violence against the Combine, who presumably the vortigaunts are against.

Date of occurrence: January 12
Evidence (screenshots, logs): I disconnected because I didn't think I was going to appeal it, but then I remember that the CP was just an event character and that I don't actually know the vortigaunts reasoning for killing me, so I'd like to hear it.
Any other parties involved: Brandon Red, other guy in 1st Platoon, event character prisoner. @Ond
Misc details: its like, yeah, i get it, but really? I'm not going to argue to hard on this one, it feels kind of BS in terms of the stakes, but I don't doubt that the vortigaunt was playing their character as some humanity loving hippy vort, but again, I don't know. I also hate appeals because they often fuck up character development and that was my biggest concern of appealing

Hey. Here are my thoughts on the matters.

My Vortigaunt, even though the prisoner was a teenager, initially thought he was a cop at first. After some interogation questions about information on any spies working for the Combine, everyone in the table agreed that the prisoner will live if he would allow them to probe their memory (and if they ended up telling the truth). Turns out they did, but only that, they had a history of being victimized by the Combine and was forced into Conscription as punishment for attempting to escape from them.

After I exchanged the information, I remember your character bursting into the room demanding for his death. You ordered the bluesuit to kill him. My vortigaunt confronted her that the prisoner was he was a civilian conscripted against his will, to which she responded that she didn't care and that she was still thrilled to make a "message" the Combine despite his innocence and kept ordering for his death. At that moment, we cannot have a psychopath infiltrating in our group. She was even bragging about his death, afterwards. Serbian or not, ethnicity will not cut it.

Qhunnata was actually permitted by Lumber to kill your character, and Red was actually distracting your her so that my character would have an opening to zap you. (Without my character knowing)

For me personally, I think the death is valid. People in the group had been already think that Esther was "ruthless and manipulative" before the scenario happened. Even if the conscript tried to "defend" himself before his capture, he was still a kid not wanting to die. He was compliant and told everyone the truth. Whilst compared to Esther, she was the one behaving like a Civil Protection unit, but under a Lambda. She was willing to kill a kid to terrify anyone inside of that Depo, in turn, feeding the Combine Propaganda to -discourage- people from joining the resistance.

These are my thoughts for the time being. In the meantime, I wish we can come into an understanding agreement with how this appeal get resolved.

 

[Señor Jaggles]

the prisoner was teenager

Huh?????

Alright I'm reading now.

I wish we can come into an understanding agreement with how this appeal get resolved.

What do you guys suggest we do

 

[Maytree]

What do you guys suggest we do

Regardless what happened, I didn't ask for the person's PK. I honestly had a slight impression they would be NLRed. But side from that, I'm also willing to hear Red's prospective

 

[Deleted member 61]

After I exchanged the information, I remember your character bursting into the room demanding for his death. You ordered the bluesuit to kill him. My vortigaunt confronted her that the prisoner was he was a civilian conscripted against his will, to which she responded that she didn't care and that she was still thrilled to make a "message" the Combine despite his innocence and kept ordering for his death. At that moment, we cannot have a psychopath infiltrating in our group. She was even bragging about his death, afterwards.

You use the term 'ordering' which is makes it sound like I have any authority in the First Platoon. Lumber let the man with the knife into the cell. We were under attack by the Combine, so I yelled them to just kill them so we could concentrate on more important stuff, like packing up and leaving or fighting off the Combine assault.

You claim he was 'innocent', but that's completely subjective. The vast majority of the camp had been reporting in that he should be killed and they weren't going to tolerate any other decision. By claiming that it was a decision to prevent a psychopath from infiltrating the group, you seem to assume that I'm part of any group or seeking to join one. I'm independent. Rather than letting plots develop, instead, you chose to PK a character by a snake-like beam to the back.

I didn't brag about his death either. I said, "Sloppy, but good work." or something like that. Need I remind you that this prisoner had just tried to kill one of his captors?

You defended a Union grunt who tried to hold one of his captors hostage and then killed a rebel doctor because of the damage they might do the the resistance? That's so wild to me.

The vortigaunt disagreed with what just happend and saw Esther as the instigator of the whole situation and saw them as a big threat to the people of the camp.

What I find strange is that the prisoner had already grabbed a hold of the man who ended up stabbing him to death (Ond), through the cell bars, and threatened to snap his neck before Ond stabbed him to get him off of them. The man had literally stabbed him in order to survive, which furthered the fact that he was a threat. It's weird that people of the camp were killed in retaliation for the death of a Combine grunt.

If it's the argument that I, in the future, might become a threat to the people of the camp is subjective and would pretty much give me PK auths on 'Cody' and council members for simply participating in it because my character doesn't like democracy and disassociate it from any of their own specific actions.

Qhunnata was actually permitted by Lumber to kill your character, and Red was actually distracting your character so that my character would have an opening to zap you.

For me personally, I think the death is valid. Even if he tried to "defend" himself before his capture, he was still a kid not wanting to die. He was compliant and told everyone the truth. Whilst compared to Esther, she was one acting like a Civil Protection unit under a Lambda.

This is quite telling.

Regardless what happened, I didn't ask for the person's PK. I honestly had a slight impression they would be NLRed. But side from that, I'm also willing to hear Red's prospective

I requested a PK because I assumed that was what was intended.

Interesting, whatever verdict happens, happens. The absence of a non-goody-two-shoes faction like Marauders was bound to have repercussions for my character. It's just odd to me how the person who let the stabber in the cell, and the person who ended up letting them loose to stab the man to death, both are the ones decided kill off the person who said they should kill them, a death they both contributed far more than I. If it's denied, I can rest comfortably knowing I wasn't betrayed only by a vort but by humans too.

Done posting unless people have other questions.

 

[Ond]

I'll just say that Poopship never ordered anything at all

As a matter of fact, they specifically told me that they had no say at all in terms of what happens to the guy, despite having wishes, when I originally asked to be let into his cell

Lumber was the one who let me into the cell

Lumber was the one who told me I could kill them, which happened just before the vort turned up because the guy decided to start spilling beans

 

[Maytree]

You claim he was 'innocent', but that's completely subjective. The vast majority of the camp had been reporting in that he should be killed and they weren't going to tolerate any other decision. By claiming that it was a decision to prevent a psychopath from infiltrating the group, you seem to assume that I'm part of any group or seeking to join one. I'm independent. Rather than letting plots develop, instead, you chose to PK a character by a snake-like beam to the back.

Espher busted into the HQ without a word demanded the POW's death as if she was high in command. Qhunnata presented evidence that prisoner was not a grunt (but was an anti-citizen that was forcefully conscripted after the citadel's destruction). It was still inhuman to kill him regardless. Like I said, I didn't request for your character to be PK.

I didn't brag about his death either. I said, "Sloppy, but good work." or something like that. Need I remind you that this prisoner had just tried to kill one of his captors?

Yes, she did. If not bragging about his death, she was certainly jesting about it.
I personally don't have the first half of the logs to prove she was "ordering" the bluesuit to kill the prisoner (or Or my vort telling Ephyr about the prisoner, aside from one log that Espher kept telling the man to stab the kid.

You defended a Union grunt who tried to hold one of his captors hostage and then killed a rebel doctor because of the damage they might do the the resistance? That's so wild to me.



What I find strange is that the prisoner had already grabbed a hold of the man who ended up stabbing him to death (Ond), through the cell bars, and threatened to snap his neck before Ond stabbed him to get him off of them. The man had literally stabbed him in order to survive, which furthered the fact that he was a threat. It's weird that people of the camp were killed in retaliation for the death of a Combine grunt.

If it's the argument that I, in the future, might become a threat to the people of the camp is subjective and would pretty much give me PK auths on 'Cody' and council members for simply participating in it because my character doesn't like democracy and disassociate it from any of their own specific actions.

I wasn't informed by that unfortunately (nor ic or by the mindprobing). I was only told that the conscript tried to kill him when they were just being captured. If that's the case, yeah that shit ain't okay.

That's all from my side too.

 

[Deleted member 6897]

Hello, Red here.

I'm not exactly sure what to comment much on the situation. I believe the fact that killing someone like that in an inhumane, sub-human way is doing more harm than good.

I feel that the death was justified because of how Esther was reacting to the situation overall. usually I'd remain neutral, but in this case It turned from a peaceful interrogation to a disgusting one. I feel like someone had to fry the fish before It made everyone both look bad and feel bad in a physiological way.

Other than that I'm not really sure what to say. I kept playing my part and the outcomes surprised me.

 

[Toriwarior30055]

It seems really silly to me that the Vort's first reaction to the Combine Grunt's stabbing is to blast Esther in the back for demanding that the grunt be executed. I would understand the killing if, let's say, Esther barged into the room and executed the grunt mid-interrogation. I don't think the permanent kill of Esther was justified because:

1. Esther was not the one who killed the Grunt, but a blue suit, who according to the replies above did so after having to free himself after being held by the prisoner through the cell walls. I don't see any mention that the blue suit was punished for this, which makes killing the person advocating for the death, but not the killer himself even sillier.
2. At that point, the grunt took away any semblance of innocence as he had attacked another rebel while being held captive and essentially took him as a hostage, which he was killed for. Even if the mind-probing proved that he was telling the truth about who he was, he had already acted in aggression against a fellow resistance member and threatened to kill them.
3. Esther was only a very vocal advocate for the death of the grunt, I don't think killing them AFTER THE FACT is justifiable at all. Especially since it seems like that was the only course of action considered to deal with Esther after what just had happened. Was there any consideration about non-violently confronting Esther about her conduct, or do we just whack everyone that doesn't behave according to our beliefs of how a resistance member should behave?

I think the PK should be repealed and the death NLR'd instead. Regardless, Maytree’s vort will still suffer the IC consequences of murdering another individual.

 

['77 East]

At that moment, we cannot have a psychopath infiltrating in our group. She was even bragging about his death, afterwards. Serbian or not, ethnicity will not cut it.

What's the point of a group or even roleplay if discipline isn't enforced and instead you just straight up PK people?

Literally, you had a plethora of options - could have exiled them, you could have beaten them up and taken all @Poopship McGee's weapons, you could have held a tribunal, so on. Things that encourage roleplay instead of going straight to a PK.

I really don't understand how you can take this approach when you literally let the actual killer (@Ond) walk free but shoot a bystander.

 

[Señor Jaggles]

Regardless what happened, I didn't ask for the person's PK. I honestly had a slight impression they would be NLRed. But side from that, I'm also willing to hear Red's prospective

You don't ask for a PK or an NLR. Your character killed somebody. The death fell under the PK criteria. That's about it really.

I really want to put this out there because just because the kill is NLR doesn't make it less bad, NLR or PK is an OOC thing.

I'll read the rest later.

 

[Señor Jaggles]

I have a question though, this cop/grunt who was killed, did they get a PK for it? Or did they survive the attack on them ultimately?

 

[FreeSpy]

I have a question though, this cop/grunt who was killed, did they get a PK for it? Or did they survive the attack on them ultimately?

it was an event char i believe

 

[Fluffy]

The cop was an event character.

I never ordered any pk/killing of your character, all my character said they agreed with her being a danger if she continued on like this. He did turn an eye to the killing though which perhaps he should've tried to stop but IC is IC I guess on that part.
Im happy to re-do a part of this if needed or requested. If anything im down for an un-pk and try to resolve this more peacefully

Lumber was the one who told me I could kill them, which happened just before the vort turned up because the guy decided to start spilling beans

I did this because like I said, he grabbed your character and nearly killed you. I only wanted to give him more time because he started spilling information which seemed useful.

Sorry if my character wasnt clear to anyone as he was really on the fence about killing the cop or not

 

[Ond]

No re-do

 

[Ond]

What's the point of a group or even roleplay if discipline isn't enforced and instead you just straight up PK people?

Literally, you had a plethora of options - could have exiled them, you could have beaten them up and taken all @Poopship McGee's weapons, you could have held a tribunal, so on. Things that encourage roleplay instead of going straight to a PK.

I really don't understand how you can take this approach when you literally let the actual killer (@Ond) walk free but shoot a bystander.

Difference in character - poopships character was entirely without regret or grief, mine wasn’t