Resolved Dr. Deutch's PK Appeal

[Maytree]

It seems really silly to me that the Vort's first reaction to the Combine Grunt's stabbing is to blast Esther in the back for demanding that the grunt be executed. I would understand the killing if, let's say, Esther barged into the room and executed the grunt mid-interrogation. I don't think the permanent kill of Esther was justified because:

1. Esther was not the one who killed the Grunt, but a blue suit, who according to the replies above did so after having to free himself after being held by the prisoner through the cell walls. I don't see any mention that the blue suit was punished for this, which makes killing the person advocating for the death, but not the killer himself even sillier.
2. At that point, the grunt took away any semblance of innocence as he had attacked another rebel while being held captive and essentially took him as a hostage, which he was killed for. Even if the mind-probing proved that he was telling the truth about who he was, he had already acted in aggression against a fellow resistance member and threatened to kill them.
3. Esther was only a very vocal advocate for the death of the grunt, I don't think killing them AFTER THE FACT is justifiable at all. Especially since it seems like that was the only course of action considered to deal with Esther after what just had happened. Was there any consideration about non-violently confronting Esther about her conduct, or do we just whack everyone that doesn't behave according to our beliefs of how a resistance member should behave?

I think the PK should be repealed and the death NLR'd instead. Regardless, Maytree’s vort will still suffer the IC consequences of murdering another individual.

Here’s the thing, the person was driven with guilt after the fact. Espher on the tried to do the same but was stopped and intervened by the two other rebels. The Bluesuit had empathy, Espher did not. We could turn the argument around and say that the Conscript kid deserved to be exiled or locked up for attacking one of the rebels, but the Bluesuit was on the verse of not controlling their action, but whilst Espher on the other hand kept influencing to kill him, and later on bribing him that she’ll make him the “Hero” of the town if he had, despite confronted with the truth.

My Vortigaunt isn’t willing to take another life. The worst thing that a person can live with is killing a kid and sulk about it for the rest of their life, which seemed more of a fitting punishment. Even my Vort told him that he should live with what he did. The defense about the Conscript attacking the Bluesuit was not brought up when Espher commanding Espher’s death was not brought up and not kept in mind, but instead for solely wearing a camouflage CP uniform. This is honestly an after-thought excuse.

I wasn’t around when the Conscript tried to attack the Bluesuit in his cell, nor was it mentioned in the mind probing (aside of it being mentioned he pulled a gun out to someone in self defense). The other characters, now recalling back, were already in the prossess of punishing him in a more humane manner. But Espher sabotaged it’s and was purporting the Bluesuit to kill for her, which later tried doing it herself.

What's the point of a group or even roleplay if discipline isn't enforced and instead you just straight up PK people?

Literally, you had a plethora of options - could have exiled them, you could have beaten them up and taken all @Poopship McGee's weapons, you could have held a tribunal, so on. Things that encourage roleplay instead of going straight to a PK.

I really don't understand how you can take this approach when you literally let the actual killer (@Ond) walk free but shoot a bystander.

Like I said, Qhun asked Lumber (the person presumely in charge of the HQ building) what would the think of the situation. They agreed that punishing an unchangeable potential tyrant through rehabilitation or confinement/exiling will not a change thing. She’s fucked up in the head, and would forever remain so unless intervened. He agreed that does is the only suitable punishment on this matter.

I won’t echo most about my first statement in this post since I already answered that.

I’ll try to dig up more logs to display for all of you to look at, but in the meantime, I recommend reading the ones I posted.

*Edit* Before Poopship made this appeal, the death was consented upon roleplay. Even during and after the list preparations emotes, he didn’t argue or protest about any of our actions through OOC/IC means. He actually went to the admins and requested for Espher to be PK’ed following the event. It -could- of been NLR due to the circumstance that the prisoner had been an event character all along, but chose not to, which makes me question the full intention of this appeal (if not a bait and switch, or some form of social chemistry to get one of us hammered with complications more complications than intended out of malice).

The cop was an event character.

I never ordered any pk/killing of your character, all my character said they agreed with her being a danger if she continued on like this. He did turn an eye to the killing though which perhaps he should've tried to stop but IC is IC I guess on that part.
Im happy to re-do a part of this if needed or requested. If anything im down for an un-pk and try to resolve this more peacefully




Sorry if my character wasnt clear to anyone as he was really on the fence about killing the cop or not

I think a re-start might be in order, I agree. Even if her death has some justification, it’s kind of silly that this was involved with an event character. I had an impression that the conscript character was real.

Either where this goes, I’m cool with an NLR/Void for this situation.

 

[Ond]

A re-do isn’t neccesary imo

Can just unPK Poopship and say he got to walk away instead of getting blasted in the back and leave it at that - all characters get to keep development, frustrations and grievances towards each other

 

[Fluffy]

A re-do isn’t neccesary imo

Can just unPK Poopship and say he got to walk away instead of getting blasted in the back and leave it at that - all characters get to keep development, frustrations and grievances towards each other

This works for me too, of course if pk appeal team accepts such outcome

 

[Maytree]

A re-do isn’t neccesary imo

Can just unPK Poopship and say he got to walk away instead of getting blasted in the back and leave it at that - all characters get to keep development, frustrations and grievances towards each other

In that case, I’ll be down with that. I originally thought situations like these need to have some sort of redo despite impending complications.

 

[Ond]

In that case, I’ll be down with that. I originally thought situations like these need to have some sort of redo despite impending complications.

Not at all given that the situation resolved immediately after he died, and didn’t go on for longer.Its perfectly acceptable to just say you opted not to kill him there and then

You can still have problems with his character just as you did right up until the killing, we just skip over that part, and say he walked down the stairs and out after talking to me

 

[Deleted member 61]

A re-do isn’t neccesary imo

Can just unPK Poopship and say he got to walk away instead of getting blasted in the back and leave it at that - all characters get to keep development, frustrations and grievances towards each other

I think this is the best route, if the appeal is accepted. I have never encountered a positive 'redo'.

1. Esther was not the one who killed the Grunt, but a blue suit, who according to the replies above did so after having to free himself after being held by the prisoner through the cell walls. I don't see any mention that the blue suit was punished for this, which makes killing the person advocating for the death, but not the killer himself even sillier.
2. At that point, the grunt took away any semblance of innocence as he had attacked another rebel while being held captive and essentially took him as a hostage, which he was killed for. Even if the mind-probing proved that he was telling the truth about who he was, he had already acted in aggression against a fellow resistance member and threatened to kill them.
3. Esther was only a very vocal advocate for the death of the grunt, I don't think killing them AFTER THE FACT is justifiable at all. Especially since it seems like that was the only course of action considered to deal with Esther after what just had happened. Was there any consideration about non-violently confronting Esther about her conduct, or do we just whack everyone that doesn't behave according to our beliefs of how a resistance member should behave?

What's the point of a group or even roleplay if discipline isn't enforced and instead you just straight up PK people?

Literally, you had a plethora of options - could have exiled them, you could have beaten them up and taken all @Poopship McGee's weapons, you could have held a tribunal, so on. Things that encourage roleplay instead of going straight to a PK.

I really don't understand how you can take this approach when you literally let the actual killer (@Ond) walk free but shoot a bystander.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who believed that there were more alternatives than starting blasting. HL2RP often suffers from an abundance of 'protangonist' characters, and I do my best to mix it up with more radical characters. I do accept a certain amount of ostricization in-character, but my understanding was that, unlike 'old HL2RP', we as a community are meant to foster plot-lines and development of conflict without resorting immediately to the most lethal response.

I want to be clear, I'm not saying I don't want to be held accountable for certain gross actions or suggestions, but I would prefer a slow escalation, similar to that of Rick and Shane from The Walking Dead, rather than being a one-dimensional kill-off character that serves to give people a sense of satisfaction for getting rid of their presence for a 'better future' for others, without said character's influence.

In regards to me accepting the death and not complaining in OOC, I felt that was me being "a good sport" about it. You made your decision to attack, I was in a completely vulnerable position and unable to even consider dodging or avoiding it without looking like a complete fucking loser trying to play to win. As much as I wanted to move on, I didn't really feel like it was a great precedent to hold either so I did the only rational thing, which was appeal, rather than being an ass and complain in LOOC and made a big deal out of it and hold up everybody's roleplay.

 

[ovxy]

I have never encountered a positive 'redo'.

because it sucks in and of itself

redos are always filled with ooc premeditation
there isn’t a single redo where at least one party doesn’t preplan the entire thing for the best outcome for themselves like they’re thinking of comebacks they could’ve used in an argument while taking a shower

I remember agreeing to a redo on c8 and instead of losing one box of ammo on my cop I lost my entire inventory and got ranked down from 70 to 50
it was funny though

 

[Deleted member 6897]

A re-do isn’t neccesary imo

Can just unPK Poopship and say he got to walk away instead of getting blasted in the back and leave it at that - all characters get to keep development, frustrations and grievances towards each other

I'm comfortable with this, If everyone else is.

I'm not too bothered about the situation, roleplays and the death of a character happens to bring such matters to a hand.

 

[Rabid]

because it sucks in and of itself

redos are always filled with ooc premeditation
there isn’t a single redo where at least one party doesn’t preplan the entire thing for the best outcome for themselves like they’re thinking of comebacks they could’ve used in an argument while taking a shower

I remember agreeing to a redo on c8 and instead of losing one box of ammo on my cop I lost my entire inventory and got ranked down from 70 to 50
it was funny though

The only positive redos are the ones where the outcome is the same but they're done to give better roleplay (like in PK's where someone is being interrogated by rebels and killed or whatever).

Otherwise yeah, they're nothing but premeditation fests. Its why I always personally advocated for voids rather than redos if there was an option.

 

[Ricsow]

The only positive redos are the ones where the outcome is the same but they're done to give better roleplay (like in PK's where someone is being interrogated by rebels and killed or whatever).

Otherwise yeah, they're nothing but premeditation fests. Its why I always personally advocated for voids rather than redos if there was an option.

Rare footage of Rabid when he finds out there‘s a new PK appeal

 

[Ond]

@Señor Jaggles all agree with these terms:

UnPK Poopship and say he got to walk away instead of getting blasted in the back and leave it at that - all characters get to keep development, frustrations and grievances towards each other

Mind if we just settle it with this and crack on with a lock and accept?

 

[Señor Jaggles]

@Señor Jaggles all agree with these terms:

Mind if we just settle it with this and crack on with a lock and accept?

Yeah that sounds alright, I think this was a silly mistake that went out of hand and nothing else really.

So, since, gladly, we can revive people here,

Appeal accepted.