Serious The Downfall of WW3RP: From the perspective of one of the common folk

GenericPlayer

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i was gonna write words words words, but really it boils down to people getting tired of repetition.

can i just say, ww3rp was very impressive on a technical level. like trying to learn lua rn, and i honestly haven't a clue as to how the /packemp command even works, genuine black magic to me. i have some ideas, but right now that's all they are, ideas.
 
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'77 East

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can i just say, ww3rp was very impressive on a technical level. like trying to learn lua rn, and i honestly haven't a clue as to how the /packemp command even works, genuine black magic to me. i have some ideas, but right now that's all they are, ideas.
@jamEs did witchcraft to remake the alterego plugin from scratch

it even works (most of the time)
 
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Beanz0nGh0st

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I do feel that WW3RP can be revived but really need to properly rubberneck on hl2rp and the past iterations and simply learn from them for the longevity of the server. Sure you can shoot down the idea of a future iteration of ww3rp for reason x, y and z but with the recent iteration, it seems merely half cocked judging from experiencing the server and what is written here. What also would help is going back to the roots of ww3rp and look back at the problems and finding a solution to them. Sure people can be pessimistic, while in a way it is justified, though on the other hand nothing was truly done, cementing said hurdles which created the pessimism in the first place.
 
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'77 East

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What also would help is going back to the roots of ww3rp
that was exactly what the last iteration did and it didn't live long

look back at the problems and finding a solution to them
find a solution for:
staff abuse
staff burnout
random throwaways joining and proceeding to commit terror
people going apeshit on literally day one
more staff abuse

yeah okay sure, we'll get right on it
 
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Sil

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that was exactly what the last iteration did and it didn't live long
But it wasn't like WW3RP's roots. There was little going on in the bases, more of a boring waiting game until a staff member had an event ready or everyone was sent out to go man specific watchpoints/objectives for a bit. A bit of a firefight happens, then bam, NLR timer for 10 minutes as nothing of value happened.

Going back to WW3RP's roots means bringing out that focus on roleplay that your bogstandard MilitaryRP server is shit with. I remember back when seeing nebulous on the servers meant genuinely serious roleplay, with roleplay being an important focus; for HL2RP you had that city lifestyle/rebel underground, for WW3RP you had that dark military/war side of things.

find a solution for:
staff abuse
staff burnout
random throwaways joining and proceeding to commit terror
people going apeshit on literally day one
more staff abuse

yeah okay sure, we'll get right on it
staff abuse can be better regulated through harsher scrutiny of staffs' actions. you can't make staff abuse disappear entirely but you can definitely reduce it with a better focus on actually stopping it and demoting over it.

burnout is inevitable. you don't need to find a solution for it, just need the means to accommodate for it when some staff get burnt out; have applications open so more staff can hop on when some want to hop off, for example

throwaways can be combated through changing the atmosphere of the server, and coming down hard on shitters who'd better playing on a werwolf WW2RP server. if someone clearly isn't showing signs of wanting to learn, don't be lenient, ban that shitter. this is further regulated if you make civilian or unaffiliated characters require either a whitelist or premium; with a whitelist then they have to put in the effort to get it, and with whitelist then money.

people going apeshit will be natural on the first day, especially if everyone's excited. that's why you spend the first few days establishing the atmosphere; something interesting like the actual journey to the next destination, from both sides, and getting their bases set up for war before the fighting actually begins. establish lore and the general feel to it, through letting those first few days be about making it an interesting setting and not just "okay men you're going to get some guns, go out in squads of 5, and try to kill the enemy who is doing the exact same as you. why? shut up stop asking questions, just do it".

to bring WW3RP back is to simultaneously reinvent it and to not fix what isn't broken. none of the past shit either, no going back to the 80s or 90s, if it starts up again then it's going to be modern warfare, with modern tech. set it in the relative near future, like 2036 or 2042, something like that. make sure the uniforms are clearly different from each other; last iteration was a fucking nightmare since the uniforms were similar colours, appearances, and silhouettes, so actually discerning anything different between the two was impossible when you jumped right on into the fighting. Stasiland got it right with NATO and the Coal Army & Stasi looking starkly different, making it really easy to discern who's who.

it's possible to bring WW3RP back, and with a good kick to it too. but it means we have to really carve a proper environment and curate a decent audience, rather than opening the doors to the masses and accommodating for everyone.
 
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Akula

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maybe this is just me having been a staff member and thus part of the evil overlord class that must be purged but I honestly don't remember there being much legitimate abuse in the last iteration. It was pretty much contained to One Person. (wonder who.)

also personally never got the complaint that coals and nato looked too similiar. Coals literally had a bright green chest-rig that 99% of people used that made them stick out whereas nato were dark as night.

modern warfare clone poopy. I liked the last setting. blegh!
 

mårten

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maybe this is just me having been a staff member and thus part of the evil overlord class that must be purged but I honestly don't remember there being much legitimate abuse in the last iteration. It was pretty much contained to One Person. (wonder who.)
there was a lot of legit abuse
me and @avralwobniar just barely had to skim the logs to find tons of it
there was just noone keeping tabs on if staff were actually behaving - or, they were aware, but didnt bother to do anything about it
 

Akula

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there was a lot of legit abuse
me and @avralwobniar just barely had to skim the logs to find tons of it
there was just noone keeping tabs on if staff were actually behaving - or, they were aware, but didnt bother to do anything about it

what was the abuse then
 

Akula

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just general shit lots of people did to give them an edge in s2k, amongst other things

seems like an incredibly vague answer for a big accusation 🤷‍♀️

maybe i was too focused on just trying to keep things running or maybe i was just a blind idiot but I never saw any of that, at least among the admins I worked most closely with.

I am fully willing to believe it, of course, WW3RP has traditionally been the poster child for abuse, but idk I sort of hate this retroactive "yeah the staff team were all lazy retards who did nothing and just abused" that always crops up after every server shuts down when a lot of us were putting a lot of effort into the server and getting very little back, especially when apparently it was so rife and impacting the server so negatively but nobody rose the issue when it was happening. (or maybe they did and it was suppressed, idk)
 
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avralwobniar

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seems like an incredibly vague answer for a big accusation 🤷‍♀️

maybe i was too focused on just trying to keep things running or maybe i was just a blind idiot but I never saw any of that, at least among the admins I worked most closely with.

I am fully willing to believe it, of course, WW3RP has traditionally been the poster child for abuse, but idk I sort of hate this retroactive "yeah the staff team were all lazy retards who did nothing and just abused" that always crops up after every server shuts down when a lot of us were putting a lot of effort into the server and getting very little back, especially when apparently it was so rife and impacting the server so negatively but nobody rose the issue when it was happening. (or maybe they did and it was suppressed, idk)
I remember finding stuff about @Mic15000 @metropaun (who are fine dudes and fun to play with on gta rp) and a few others whose names I dont wanna randomly out a year later. it was sent through forums and discord to roosebud but obviously he never acted on it while it was going on

you had quit playing a month or two before I decided to skim the logs that one night. it was just a product of roosebud being careless and not really giving a fuck about what people actually di

some people in staff tried, but it was ultimately a complete shitshow
 
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Akula

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ok i stand corrected! Abuse did happen and I was none the wiser. Sad! Sadder still that it was reported and nothing was done about it, although I would say at that point one ought've taken it further, made it public, went to more reasonable admins (like me, hehe. im epic) about it, brought evidence forward and gathered support from the playerbase. Be the change you want to see.

It leads me into another point I want to bring up.

It's not just the responsbility of the staff or the server director to make a server good, sure, it's our job, but we're a community, and it ought to be a community effort.

It's all well good to sit back now and say "X didn't happen, Y wasn't done." but frankly a lot of people making these complaints had the capacity to do something about it if they had really wanted too.

"It would've been cooler if NCO's made proper plans and used real tactics, instead of rushing out into the field."
Half the people thinking this WERE ncos! What was stopping them? You don't need to be a Lieutenant or a faction lead to start using your brain. You can make there be a purpose to a patrol, you can divide your fireteams, teach people to use tactics, it's all quite literally in your job description from the lowliest Corporal to the highest Officer. I did this plenty of times, and people seemed to really enjoy it, and if you get people complaining that they just wanna go on the field? Well congrats, you outed a retard. Report them if they're an NCO, shun them if they're an enlisted.

"There was no RP/nothing to do on base."
Is that a failure on the behalf of staff/faction leadership? Yeah. Probably. Does that mean you just go kick rocks and do nothing about it? Ought not to be. Again, nothing stopping anyone from cracking open a cold one and bringing some idea to the table, and a lot of people did. Good on 'em. You can't just sit around and wait for shit to fall on your lap. You have to give to get in RP, a lot of people struggle to understand this.

every time a server ends, and a few months or a year later ppl are reminiscing about it, there's all this "Someone should've done something about that." but nobody had these bright ideas when the server was up, apparently.
 
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'77 East

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Going back to WW3RP's roots means bringing out that focus on roleplay that your bogstandard MilitaryRP
for WW3RP you had that dark military/war side of things
focus on roleplay
yes because seeing people constantly meme about the most banal shit was a 'focus on roleplay'.

you ever play the server, man? because unless you went around handholding with MP's you certainly didn't see a focus on roleplay. it was noticably lacking from just about everything. it's fine to want, but to say ww3rp had it as a core principle is a straight up lie.

you can definitely reduce it with a better focus on actually stopping it and demoting over it.
every, and I mean every iteration has had rampant abuse.

good luck with that.

burnout is inevitable. you don't need to find a solution for it, just need the means to accommodate for it
have applications open so more staff can hop on when some want to hop off, for example
yeah, and what did most people who joined up do?
fly around and do nothing or barely show up to begin with.

other potential applicants were frankly absolutely 100% unfit anyway so the server was scraping the barrel by then.

with whitelist then money.
locking decent gameplay functions critical to a stable server loop behind premium whitelists is completely fucking shit

1) it's ethically shit since it encourages pay-to-win mentalities to form and people being unwilling to risk their investment/willing to meme if they can throw cash around since it's a buy-in faction.

2) encourages the server to go to shit because suddenly premium is creeping into core functions. premium should be a bonus, not a gateway to main character syndrome.

that's why you spend the first few days establishing the atmosphere;
'establishing the atmosphere' is not going to surmount the problem of having to immediately re-align balances, the playerbase, people's expectations, ramp up the few developers to fix bugs, etc that all comes with day one launches.

if you think any of that is easy, I encourage you to launch your own hyped server with actual gruntwork (and not borrowed code) put into it and learn exactly why it's a fucking pain.


if it starts up again then it's going to be modern warfare, with modern tech
great, so people start meming again with social media this and iphone that. warcrime screencaps, references to celebrities and movies, the works.

there's a reason people hated the modern settings.

it's possible to bring WW3RP back, and with a good kick to it too.
it's possible to bring frundtech back, too.
who the fuck is going to put in the gargantuan amount of effort?

either volunteer or just tone the nolstalgia down, please.
 
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jamEs

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@jamEs did witchcraft to remake the alterego plugin from scratch

it even works (most of the time)
feels much longer ago than 2020 wow

i just looked at the code and it was wayyyyyyyyyy sloppier than the datafile I made in 2016, barely any comments in there.
 
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Akula

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image.png
 
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Tinbe

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yes, bring back frundtech (serious)
FTRP was close to my heart, but I've gotta say that there's no way it could work without completely re-imagining it.
Reliance on staff to keep things interesting, the titular faction being literal whos that were barely around, mutants being simultaneously overpowered while completely weak if not played by staff... and probably bunch more I can't remember off the top of my head.

Edit: Holy shit those typos killed me, had to fix them.

I'll leave it at that since idk if it'd be sound to derail the main topic of the thread even if I wanted to talk more about FTRP.
 
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Akula

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FTRP was close to my heart, but I've gotta say that there's no way it could work withour completely re-imagining it.
Reliance on staff to keep things interesting, the titular faction being litral whos that were barely around, mutants being simultaneously overpowered while completely weak if not played by staff... and probably bunch more I can't remember off the top of my head.

I'll leave it at that since idk if it'd be sound to derail the main topic of the thread even if I wanted to talk more about FTRP.

no it would work
give me server director
i can be trusted :)
 

GenericPlayer

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i imagine the biggest technical pain would be trying to set up a constantly running server. that's why episodic rp is easier, you don't need to have it running 24/7, and the overall scope is a lot smaller.

but yeah literally any RP setting can be brought back/remade, if you have the time and know-how. most of us don't though, or we might know a little but not enough to properly do it justice y'know?
 
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