OTA should refrain from wrecking shit before rebels even acquire Tier 3, and if you want to go mopping the floor with people before reaching that point, play a cop
I'm not concerned about any lack of shooting as an OTA prior to Tier 3, I know if I want to do that I'll play my CP. I'm more concerned about the RP side and its intricacies, really. People might just not flag on at all (even if it's the expectation until T3). I'd prefer to not neglect my OTA character because we're not at a certain 'point'.
Side note, comparing this to lambda wars is a joke. Lambda wars is a small multiplayer game. This is different, as individual groups in the rebels will be contesting ownership over different productions since the amount of them that can be placed is limited on the map, Combine will have internal schisms over who the weapons/plasteel go to, and can be penalized for reckless planning & loss
Coordination is harder, and character v character conflict is promoted as a result
I'm not concerned about any lack of shooting as an OTA prior to Tier 3, I know if I want to do that I'll play my CP. I'm more concerned about the RP side and its intricacies, really. People might just not flag on at all (even if it's the expectation until T3). I'd prefer to not neglect my OTA character because we're not at a certain 'point'.
You won't be denied the ability to roleplay, and anyone that doesn't flag up without the premonition of S2K on their OTA had no interest in roleplaying to begin with
You won't be denied the ability to roleplay, and anyone that doesn't flag up without the premonition of S2K on their OTA had no interest in roleplaying to begin with
This is just about all I needed to hear, really. If the system is put in place (Which I hope it is so we can test-drive it) I'd love to hear, or talk, more about what the faction would get up-to in the meantime outside of standing around base doing nothing.
Also a thing to note too, an average of like 9 pistols and 3 SMG's a day for each side is a pretty decent amount. How many times do you expect to die and lose those firearms? They're not deleted when you die, after all. The only time shit would be low tier is when a map change has only recently happened, like - yeah it's gonna take a while to ramp up to the tier 3 average. But once you start a stockpile, then it should be smooth sailing until you get higher tier specialist equipment.
Now, for some changes to the productions themselves, or clarifications.
Freeman's Gunsmith should come directly after Advanced Gunsmith, not refinied gunsmith. Pulse Ammunition down to 4 boxes (30 Shots) per day (120 is max for Pulse Rifle. So that's more than enough per person. More if you stockpile)
Does the Exotic Gunsmith make 1 RPG per week?
Do these passively generate one armor suit per day, or do your provide materials for the specific armor? Just confused as the previous tiers Armour is used to 'upgrade' the armorer. Additionally, does this grant Armor scraps to rebels for 'Mid-S2K repairs' or do they need to craft those themselves with normal materials?
Do you have a model for Modified Overwatch armor? Because that sounds cool as fuck!
Does this imply elite deployments? And what is an 'Individual Elite', just a single Elite attached to a squad of normal soldiers?
For Phase 2 Req, is it 1 of each, Pulse Rifle, Ordinal Rifle and SPAS-12 or mutually exclusive. And will it provide shotgun shells for the SPAS-12?
3 Dark Energy Balls per day is very powerful.
Are there any specific uses for Stalkers? I could see this incentivizing the Combine to capture some rebels so that they can get a boon to production. Or maybe necessary for certain map specific combine requirements.
When you have the Automated Unit production, are the amounts capped? If you launch 3 Hopper Mines one day, can you launch 3 Hopper mines the next day even if the first 3 are still active? When you launch a Hunter or Gunship - do they stick around until they are dead? If they stay alive until you can spawn a second one, do you now have 2 Hunters? Just some clarification on that.
I'll keep this short since I can't bother with using forums on my phone.
I love the idea and how it's presented, we should definitely see how it can be perfected to fit the current state of the server and, one day, make this actually work.
While it would fix the issue with s2k being, as of today, mindless and mostly unnecessary (bar the blacksite-related conflicts), I do not see how effectively this incorporates with roleplay and, more specifically, IC consequences: The system lays a good framework for proper, unified gameplay mechanics and giving OOC reasons to make players explore and settle outside of their respective safe areas, it feels like roleplay itself would not be affected as much besides from "hey we should like make x in y", "guys let's make an outpost here" or "oh no this place got obliterated". In short, my main concern is that such system offers RP premises, but no substance, although I'm not exactly sure how this can be amended without just relying on "well, gotta be a good player and rp it" (which, mind you, is a completely fine mindset but not everyone is the same).
This is actually a pretty interesting example of how we've been approaching this sort of thing
It adds a variety of gameplay effects, but doesn't put forth any sort of overarching story, tone, or anything - something the server has been in drastic need of for a while now.
We're a month into this map with nothing to show for it. Blacksites went from being ignored to having the defenses ignored, crates have been a good patch for no item spawner/not wanting to spawn large sums of items, and everyone has a gun of some sort - but there's nothing pushing people to go out into the world barring the same conflict we've had for years now, rebel v combine, and the playerbase has shown time and again they simply aren't that interested in such a thing anymore. Nobody fought over blacksites to the tune of the same veracity they once had, players are much more interested in the rigamarole of daily life and then baking in the safety of the confines of home.
I'd much rather this update come with a story-related reason to talk it all away - Combine making contact with a greater warband, rebels getting help, anything - and I don't see this update working without taking a long look at what's been plaguing this iteration for a while now, and finally re-doing PK rules so we can actually get some forward-progression from people stuck on chars from moons ago.
Also a thing to note too, an average of like 9 pistols and 3 SMG's a day for each side is a pretty decent amount. How many times do you expect to die and lose those firearms? They're not deleted when you die, after all. The only time shit would be low tier is when a map change has only recently happened, like - yeah it's gonna take a while to ramp up to the tier 3 average. But once you start a stockpile, then it should be smooth sailing until you get higher tier specialist equipment.
Now, for some changes to the productions themselves, or clarifications.
Freeman's Gunsmith should come directly after Advanced Gunsmith, not refinied gunsmith. Pulse Ammunition down to 4 boxes (30 Shots) per day (120 is max for Pulse Rifle. So that's more than enough per person. More if you stockpile)
Does the Exotic Gunsmith make 1 RPG per week?
Do these passively generate armor per day, or do your provide materials for the armor? Additionally, does this grant Armor scraps to rebels for 'Mid-S2K repairs' or do they need to craft those themselves with normal materials?
Do you have a model for Modified Overwatch armor? Because that sounds cool as fuck!
Does this imply elite deployments? And what is an 'Individual Elite', just a single Elite attached to a squad of normal soldiers?
For Phase 2 Req, is it 1 of each, Pulse Rifle, Ordinal Rifle and SPAS-12? And will it provide shotgun shells for the SPAS-12?
3 Dark Energy Balls per day is very powerful.
Are there any specific uses for Stalkers? I could see this incentivizing the Combine to capture some rebels so that they can get a boon to production. Or maybe necessary for certain map specific combine requirements.
When you have the Automated Unit production, are the amounts capped? If you launch 3 Hopper Mines one day, can you launch 3 Hopper mines the next day even if the first 3 are still active? When you launch a Hunter or Gunship - do they stick around until they are dead? If they stay alive until you can spawn a second one, do you now have 2 Hunters? Just some clarification on that.
Do these passively generate armor per day, or do your provide materials for the armor? Additionally, does this grant Armor scraps to rebels for 'Mid-S2K repairs' or do they need to craft those themselves with normal materials?
same as the RPG, making the building creates the armor immediately
due to armor retaining on death its very hard to lose it so we lowered the rate of generation. but yeah the building would likely generate the means to repair said armor and keep it topped up over time
a single EOTA can appear in tier 4 (and thus take charge of the entire currently flagged-on OTA)
at tier 5 EOTA can form their own elite squads and do their thermal vision shenanigans
Are there any specific uses for Stalkers? I could see this incentivizing the Combine to capture some rebels so that they can get a boon to production. Or maybe necessary for certain map specific combine requirements.
When you have the Automated Unit production, are the amounts capped? If you launch 3 Hopper Mines one day, can you launch 3 Hopper mines the next day even if the first 3 are still active? When you launch a Hunter or Gunship - do they stick around until they are dead? If they stay alive until you can spawn a second one, do you now have 2 Hunters? Just some clarification on that.
see both are interesting avenues but can lead to some shwacky stuff
i personally veer towards them stacking up and consisting, since it heavily encourages the resistance to actually deal with the more potent synth creation facilities like hunters
same as the RPG, making the building creates the armor immediately
due to armor retaining on death its very hard to lose it so we lowered the rate of generation. but yeah the building would likely generate the means to repair said armor and keep it topped up over time
Then for armorer's, probably best to just have it be a mostly Armor scrap production facility, in which if you provide certain materials you can 'upgrade' your suit. So long as it's at the right tier
Edit: Kevlar vests disappear when they're destroyed right? So they could be daily I guess idk
perhaps stalkers could reduce the cooldown for certain vehicles to be repaired, or the cooldown for synthetics to go back out - either way, it's a cheap tier 1 construct that can be used to elevate to tier 2 quicker on the combine side
Then for armorer's, probably best to just have it be a mostly Armor scrap production facility, in which if you provide certain materials you can 'upgrade' your suit. So long as it's at the right tier
Edit: Kevlar vests disappear when they're destroyed right? So they could be daily I guess idk
i spent a LOT of time internally debating how best to introduce rebel armor because i knew that Tailors might throw a fit if their shtick is replaced by a building
i initially wanted to have buildings that "provided the materials to make armor" but then numbers told me rebels would just use those to make other shit that happened to use the same materials
I'd rather we keep what staff had murmurs about in chat and reduce the max hp/armor of people before we openly re-introduce the concept of the 120 armor suit - like I said, I'd prefer the max armour any player can hold would be something like 110, w/ 110 for p1, 120 for p2, and 140/140 for eow
I'd rather we keep what staff had murmurs about in chat and reduce the max hp/armor of people before we openly re-introduce the concept of the 120 armor suit - like I said, I'd prefer the max armour any player can hold would be something like 110, w/ 110 for p1, 120 for p2, and 140/140 for eow
Blacksites went from being ignored to having the defenses ignored, crates have been a good patch for no item spawner/not wanting to spawn large sums of items, and everyone has a gun of some sort - but there's nothing pushing people to go out into the world barring the same conflict we've had for years now, rebel v combine, and the playerbase has shown time and again they simply aren't that interested in such a thing anymore. Nobody fought over blacksites to the tune of the same veracity they once had, players are much more interested in the rigamarole of daily life and then baking in the safety of the confines of home.
I'd much rather this update come with a story-related reason to talk it all away - Combine making contact with a greater warband, rebels getting help, anything - and I don't see this update working without taking a long look at what's been plaguing this iteration for a while now, and finally re-doing PK rules so we can actually get some forward-progression from people stuck on chars from moons ago.
tbh its not that people arent interested in rebel v combine conflict, there just isnt much of an interesting story reason for it rn. rebel rp has circled round to internal conflict and outpost management instead because of the lack of a story being actively pushed and the lack of interactions with combine side outside of s2k. i dont think trying to purge older characters will solve it either
blacksites werent being ignored, but iirc theres been literally nothing (since /events at the start of the map) trying to push rebels to take them, its hard to organise raids on rebel side and its harder to even get enough combine on. and when we *did* take this one, there hasnt been any story stuff thats came from it. pretty much just "this was a strider factory š" (sorry antiloin)
tbh its not that people arent interested in rebel v combine conflict, there just isnt much of an interesting story reason for it rn. rebel rp has circled round to internal conflict and outpost management instead because of the lack of a story being actively pushed and the lack of interactions with combine side outside of s2k. i dont think trying to purge older characters will solve it either
blacksites werent being ignored, but iirc theres been literally nothing (since /events at the start of the map) trying to push rebels to take them, its hard to organise raids on rebel side and its harder to even get enough combine on. and when we *did* take this one, there hasnt been any story stuff thats came from it. pretty much just "this was a strider factory š" (sorry antiloin)
i definitely think storylines need to be pushed more
in complete disagreement on the state of OG characters, they need to stick around
this is off-topic but i hate PKs for the sake of PKs, anything that encourages revolving-door characters is bad imo
when i think of the main characters of the iteration, i think of Harland, Elijah, Warren, and other people who were there since day 1
killing them off because they're "too old" does a disservice to the reverence these characters deserve
This is actually a pretty interesting example of how we've been approaching this sort of thing
It adds a variety of gameplay effects, but doesn't put forth any sort of overarching story, tone, or anything - something the server has been in drastic need of for a while now.
We're a month into this map with nothing to show for it. Blacksites went from being ignored to having the defenses ignored, crates have been a good patch for no item spawner/not wanting to spawn large sums of items, and everyone has a gun of some sort - but there's nothing pushing people to go out into the world barring the same conflict we've had for years now, rebel v combine, and the playerbase has shown time and again they simply aren't that interested in such a thing anymore. Nobody fought over blacksites to the tune of the same veracity they once had, players are much more interested in the rigamarole of daily life and then baking in the safety of the confines of home.
I'd much rather this update come with a story-related reason to talk it all away - Combine making contact with a greater warband, rebels getting help, anything - and I don't see this update working without taking a long look at what's been plaguing this iteration for a while now, and finally re-doing PK rules so we can actually get some forward-progression from people stuck on chars from moons ago.
This is what in part I see as the main caveat. The system is great in concept (And saying it is like Lambda wars is something I would consider as a compliment, nice game).
BUT! We still have to address the narrative!
I don't like dropping bombs into the forums, but to be honest the narrative/story/whatever happens over time has gone (for a while, I think) pretty aimless. At this point I am here for the good people, even making small arc with this sort of sandbox.
But the premise is Combine vs Rebels, what more can you ask!? Yeah... No, that is the bare minimum of a storyline, say CvR with extra /me's. It looks despite the "advances" of the war, I see zero actual progression despite the bases built and guns obtained. It feels... Meaningless. To me everything feels like the exact same but on a different map, rebels still on scrappy resources despite the CMB being on the "backfoot" (and it isn't the first time I said that, probably). So to do this would imply doing way more than that. Why? It is an opportunity to revamp things up.
We have an opportunity to make the gameplay truly feel like it goes in accord with the progression, or vice-versa. Now, what could be integrated with it? That's up to staff to say, but it shouldn't be that difficult. In fact, I drop down a rough idea in mind. A not so simple premise, yet not ultra complicated, say:
Humanity have gained much more control for the (presumably) last 10 years this cluster of Thugs with guns. The remaining Combine city bastions have to manage each other to buy time, as their very core still could run the overworld endgame, but... It would take longer than one would be comfortable with. In any case, they should start using the good old Hearts and Minds to put refugees scattered into their side. Rebels, while on a good step ahead for total victory, have the lingering issues of a wasteland without the Combine, so they also won't be able to finish it all in one large offensive, and especially not take all of their kind well nourished, unlike what the Combine masks as. What you have now is a series of guerrilla but also psychological wars. Attacks could be unplanned, ambushes unexpected, betrayals to each other approach rule rather than the exception. Get creative, the fate of the world you have here is in you hands. Hell, it makes cops have more reason to exist and each side be a bit more sensical narrative wise.
Anyway, I am here to have a fun story to engage with more than anything. So while this is excellent for short term, player led fun; we could also start seeing the long term/staff/lore led foundation meshing each other at last, making something beautiful and worth sticking around. After all, we are in an RP server, and to just make Diet CSGO have a little more purpose but nothing else is done with it... Yeah, I think I'd be waste of a fine opportunity. So I'd rather spend my time in other places once the little arcs I have going on are done, because there is not much worth in what is appearing to me a HL2Sim pretending be HL2RP (though I could say this for quite a few other servers, and I have ).
Oh, I don't think things like buildings need to motivate RP by themselves, but rather, how we reach them and use them is their real charm. In the end, despite whatever the upper ladder can grant and such, players are the one wether if they RP, how, and with what quality.
However, I think I derailed myself too much into some sort of brainstorm/vent... And I spent too much time writing this, so I'll leave any flaws in the argument there...
TLDR, Great stuff, but remember to make this small thing (along with others) tie well with the big ones, and I think this will make the server truly stand out! RP will make itself with a small hint of creativity. Otherwise, we would not be getting much out of it.
This is what in part I see as the main caveat. The system is great in concept (And saying it is like Lambda wars is something I would consider as a compliment, nice game).
BUT! We still have to address the narrative!
I don't like dropping bombs into the forums, but to be honest the narrative/story/whatever happens over time has gone (for a while, I think) pretty aimless. At this point I am here for the good people, even making small arc with this sort of sandbox.
But the premise is Combine vs Rebels, what more can you ask!? Yeah... No, that is the bare minimum of a storyline, say CvR with extra /me's. It looks despite the "advances" of the war, I see zero actual progression despite the bases built and guns obtained. It feels... Meaningless. To me everything feels like the exact same but on a different map, rebels still on scrappy resources despite the CMB being on the "backfoot" (and it isn't the first time I said that, probably). So to do this would imply doing way more than that. Why? It is an opportunity to revamp things up.
We have an opportunity to make the gameplay truly feel like it goes in accord with the progression, or vice-versa. Now, what could be integrated with it? That's up to staff to say, but it shouldn't be that difficult. In fact, I drop down a rough idea in mind. A not so simple premise, yet not ultra complicated, say:
Humanity have gained much more control for the (presumably) last 10 years this cluster of Thugs with guns. The remaining Combine city bastions have to manage each other to buy time, as their very core still could run the overworld endgame, but... It would take longer than one would be comfortable with. In any case, they should start using the good old Hearts and Minds to put refugees scattered into their side. Rebels, while on a good step ahead for total victory, have the lingering issues of a wasteland without the Combine, so they also won't be able to finish it all in one large offensive, and especially not take all of their kind well nourished, unlike what the Combine masks as. What you have now is a series of guerrilla but also psychological wars. Attacks could be unplanned, ambushes unexpected, betrayals to each other approach rule rather than the exception. Get creative, the fate of the world you have here is in you hands. Hell, it makes cops have more reason to exist and each side be a bit more sensical narrative wise.
Anyway, I am here to have a fun story to engage with more than anything. So while this is excellent for short term, player led fun; we could also start seeing the long term/staff/lore led foundation meshing each other at last, making something beautiful and worth sticking around. After all, we are in an RP server, and to just make Diet CSGO have a little more purpose but nothing else is done with it... Yeah, I think I'd be waste of a fine opportunity. So I'd rather spend my time in other places once the little arcs I have going on are done, because there is not much worth in what is appearing to me a HL2Sim pretending be HL2RP (though I could say this for quite a few other servers, and I have ).
Oh, I don't think things like buildings need to motivate RP by themselves, but rather, how we reach them and use them is their real charm. In the end, despite whatever the upper ladder can grant and such, players are the one wether if they RP, how, and with what quality.
However, I think I derailed myself too much into some sort of brainstorm/vent... And I spent too much time writing this, so I'll leave any flaws in the argument there...
TLDR, Great stuff, but remember to make this small thing (along with others) tie well with the big ones, and I think this will make the server truly stand out! RP will make itself with a small hint of creativity. Otherwise, we would not be getting much out of it.
part of the motivation for this between me and @Numbers was to make it so having this system be player-led, with their actions fueling it, would free up staff to focus on more story-oriented things like events and plots, instead of worrying about managing pseudo-economies
i'd been told that staff are basically handling the CvR stuff full time and their hands are too full to deal with much else
you could integrate a type of entity that acts as a spawnpoint for the given faction. click E on a stasis pod as an OTA and that's your new spawn point until you click on another; ditto for cops/rebels with bunks. if the entity is destroyed then your spawnpoint is reset to the default. make outposts more viable, you can effectively station yourself there instead of at home.
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