HL2RP 'The new metro map is terrible' Thread| Agree/Disagree , and why.

[Fyrdraca]

The new Metro 2033 map is terrible. This is my opinion and I believe it's a sentiment concurred with by more than a few. I think it mitigates the ability to facilitate roleplay , and in particular, 'independent' roleplay - those of characters who aren't hard-line grizzled Orsted, 52nd, similar groups or regimented COPs and OTA. Those who don't have a dedicated alignment within the drawn narrative, that pursue their own character's personal interests/story and development; outliers per se. Unaccounted for.

Why is this so? Because although the map is big, sprawling perhaps - convolutedly so in my opinion - it's extremely limited. It boils down to essentially 'the rebel bit' and 'the Combine bit' , with next to nothing in-between; the small areas that exist outside of those influences being effectively dark cramped pointless filler, or locations that would make no logical sense in establishing anything, due to practicality or vicinity to said 'bits'.

What seems to be clear to me is that if one is not able to effectively passive-RP within one of these groups due to IC reasoning or more accurately - lack of reasoning - then you are essentially forced into your experience becoming a tunnel running simulator or simply waiting around for divine happenings, typically in the form of admin events or scenes, which in the case of events are almost primarily S2K events for either the Combine faction, or the individuals of the core Resistance. Those not ICly involved in those groups for one reason or another forced to follow along like lost puppies, sheer boredom, or simply just not involved due to your character having no sensical interest in participating; or are simply unaware and uninvolved (not just for S2K stuff)

I'm interested in hearing others takes on this current Metro map, which I personally hope is switched for something more open with wider potential for all, in the near future.

For those who believe I'm just whinging, fair enough, take this how you will.

 

[CEOofCyberpunkWoodenChair]

thug shit map

 

[TheInnkeeper]

nah the map is great, really good oppressive atmosphere and its super different for hl2rp

 

[Deleted member 5367]

always critics i guess

which I personally hope is switched for something more open with wider potential for all, in the near future.

this map is not the be-all-end-all and won't be

This is my opinion and I believe it's a sentiment concurred with by more than a few. I think it mitigates the ability to facilitate roleplay , and in particular, 'independent' roleplay - those of characters who aren't hard-line grizzled Orsted, 52nd, similar groups or regimented COPs and OTA. Those who don't have a dedicated alignment within the drawn narrative, that pursue their own character's personal interests/story and development; outliers per se. Unaccounted for.

Why is this so? Because although the map is big, sprawling perhaps - convolutedly so in my opinion - it's extremely limited

there really are plenty of places on the map to rp with

the nature of rebel rp has always been a mess between people who wanna do their own thing and ppl who wanna go their own way, been that way since the server began

i do quite like the independent aspect of some characters and if it came down to it i'd be willing to do what i can to help out with my event rank to get yourselves a place set-up

I personally dont agree with the current rebel area, I think it's too big and too broad and should be even further away from the combine

which in the case of events are almost primarily S2K events for either the Combine faction, or the individuals of the core Resistance

it's not like we pluck them out particularly, they just happen to be around
there are plenty of mini-series but i for one am focused on small narrative building elements and focusing on characters in particular

The new Metro 2033 map is terrible

we haven't even been on it for like a week, bro, it's far too soon to call the shots on whether or not this is map is bad

I'm interested in hearing others takes on this current Metro map,

me too, because whatever problems i think we can TRY to fix, i totally get what you're saying with this and it's a shortcoming of both map and circumstances

Those who don't have a dedicated alignment within the drawn narrative, that pursue their own character's personal interests/story and development; outliers per se. Unaccounted for.

it's so hard to accommodate for every playstyle. it sounds like a cop-out but it is. it's hard enough balancing classic rebels v cops lmao

For those who believe I'm just whinging, fair enough, take this how you will.

nah criticism is important, but just remember we're all just volunteers, so just try being a bit softer on us than just going "it's terrible" i get you want whats best for the server and we all do

none of this was to diminish what you said but to just add my own perspective on this -- i think overall it's too soon to call the shots. barely had a week

but i do hope this gets talked about and fixed, i think it's an issue that can be accommodated and fixed within this map

 

[Subeh]

I believe it's a sentiment concurred with by more than a few

i'd like to know who the 'more than a few' are

 

[Blackquill]

I know first impressions are very important, but it's also important to give something new a bit of time to see how it develops/adapts

If you still feel this way after idk a week or two then that's fair. Not to say your initial criticism is unfair but it's important to give it a sporting chance, you know?

 

[Erkor]

I think rp_metro_sf2 is different. I wouldn't call it "good" or "bad" because that would imply I have any sort of deep grasp on level design, faction dynamics (in regards to gameplay), and movement flow (in this gamemode's context). However, I can at least offer a few limited insights from my PoV.

To begin, I want to talk about the general aesthetic design of the map. I would be speaking hypocritically if I said this map "didn't feel like half-life 2"--I have said this in a discord, so I was being hypocritical, really--but it's all but obvious the general artstyle of the map is based on the labyrinthine, sprawling ruins of the moscow metro. Is this a bad thing? No, I don't think so -- at least not objectively. I have some personal reservations about it, but that's almost entirely based on the fact the general aesthetic makes me think of Terminator RP (not due to the artstyle, but because an amount of the unique map props have the same kind of crusted-up look that a bunch of assets in TnB's Terminator RP setting have). I've been a large proponent of trying out something different for a Half-Life 2 RP setting, and this definitely is different. As a consequence, it won't be to everyone's taste, and I think that's okay.

However, aesthetics aren't the only thing that make a map enjoyable. I've been mulling over it as I had been watching Season 7 Episode 9 of Star Trek: Voyager (this thread entering my radar roughly coincided with me watching that double-feature and it had a few really slow moments), and I came to the conclusion that -- while the map certainly gives me a particular response when I look at it -- my reservations aren't entirely based on how it looks. A great benefit of relatively 'classical' maps, that is i17, or c08, or rp_eastcoast_v2, or rp_asheville, is that they can be cut down the middle and are relatively easy to navigate thanks to landmarks and an open view, provided you have some form of a grounding area. In i17, it might be the construction zone or the plaza; in c08, it might be the citadel or the main street; in eastcoast, the police station; and in asheville, perhaps the church, or the docks, or the warehouse with the crashed plane. Contrast this to the metro map: You are shrouded in darkness, and while people have been able to generally map some sections of it, navigating it without a general idea of where each tunnel can lead will almost definitely result in you getting lost. This could be attributed to "new map syndrome" (or, the fact that we've been on this map for two days), but I personally believe it's a bit of a turn-off.

Visibility is another, but minor concern in maps as a whole, and the metro map is generally speaking a very dark place. No doubt this is an intentional feature, considering its origins and (probably) intended setting, but in certain cases it can lead to a few bad situations. As an example: A patrol team with two soldiers tries to chart a tunnel. One part is shrouded in complete darkness. A soldier takes out a flare, seeking to light the way. The flare is unable to light anything up. Maybe it was a dynamic light issue, or maybe something with the lightmapping or the areaportals being slightly funny or something -- I don't know. It still happened, though, and remains in my mind as "a thing that happened on this map haha".

My personal critiques of this map shouldn't be taken as gospel, though, and I encourage people find their own mindsets. I don't think rp_metro_sf is bad. I think we might just need some time to adjust to it before we make any particular statements about it. As far as I know, nobody's done a combine-v-rebel scenario in a god damn metro tunnel before, and there will no doubt be problems related to it at some point, but sometimes you need to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

I need to get back into the flow of things. I liked asheville quite a bit (visibility issues notwithstanding) because it was open, performed well, and looked nice. The metro map doesn't quite tickle those things for me personally, but the potential logistical challenges that we might face as a whole can prove very interesting, considering our location.​

 

[TheInnkeeper]

i'd like to know who the 'more than a few' are

edit:

on a serious note i might be bias. my first experience with gmod seriousRP was the LP WW3RP, on a metro map, which is very nostalgic, so maybe im influenced by that. but from what ive seen its been pretty cool for both sides, though im admittedly skewed toward a combine perspective

 

[Ricsow]

"it‘s too confusing and convoluted" mfs when they find out about a pen and a piece of paper

Spoiler

I tried

 

[Señor Jaggles]

"it‘s too confusing and convoluted" mfs when they find out about a pen and a piece of paper

Spoiler

I tried

Man really said

Anyways I think it's a map with many holes and places to walk through, you should give it a shot at least for a few days and then go over your previous notes and see if you changed your mind or not.

Regardless, as independent as your char may be, most groups have public resistance hubs to be in, at least in the previous map they did and I don't see why they shouldn't have public use areas, at least to be there.

 

[Deleted member 906]

"it‘s too confusing and convoluted" mfs when they find out about a pen and a piece of paper

Spoiler

I tried

Yeah but we don't have a mini-map or birds eye view or even a map item we can refer to or use. So this is pretty redundant and only applies to those who can see the map from this perspective.

 

[TheInnkeeper]

Yeah but we don't have a mini-map or birds eye view or even a map item we can refer to or use. So this is pretty redundant and only applies to those who can see the map from this perspective.

do you not know how maps work? you don't need a birds eye view to make a map of your own. hell, you wouldnt even need to make a map, if you REALLY dont want to bother learning how the map works, you can just open it in sandbox and screenshot the layout, rather than make your own map

you use the view the map gives you to work out where you are, that's... just how maps work

 

[Deleted member 906]

do you not know how maps work? you don't need a birds eye view to make a map of your own. hell, you wouldnt even need to make a map, if you REALLY dont want to bother learning how the map works, you can just open it in sandbox and screenshot the layout, rather than make your own map

you use the view the map gives you to work out where you are, that's... just how maps work

I shouldn't have to make a map, but your argument is irrelevant as I stopped playing because I'm bored of the nonsensical map switches and lore decisions, I get the teams going for ambiguity but I, personally felt a disconnect despite whichever side I was on, nothing made sense to me. That's not to say it's a bad thing it's just not my cup of tea unfortunately. I respect the team for working their hardest but it had me lost for a time and still am slight even after ARKS lore catchup thread.

 

[Señor Jaggles]

i'd like to know who the 'more than a few' are

Not sure why you need him to give you a signed list of players for you to take his view and consider his argument. He's probably talked to people, or probably has not. He just gave his opinion on the map and asked others for theirs.

I shouldn't have to make a map

I mean you don't have to, you can learn the layout, if someone can learn how to go from one place to another in a big city I'm not sure how doing two or three laps to a Gmod map is such an issue to learn.

your argument is irrelevant as I stopped playing

We're talking on a general note here though, you involved yourself so he referred to you, but it goes for anyone else who reads his post.

Other than that I'm not sure what the deal is with the dumb trucks in response to people and the dismissive attitude, just because you think we should have a mini map or something because you refuse to go around and discover (or play at all) doesn't immediately make the rest of people "stupid" or something.

I personally don't LOVE metro but I try to understand it may appease some people, I'm not exactly alone in the server.

 

[Deleted member 5367]

as I stopped playing

thank god

 

[Trains]

I shouldn't have to make a map, but your argument is irrelevant as I stopped playing because I'm bored of the nonsensical map switches and lore decisions, I get the teams going for ambiguity but I, personally felt a disconnect despite whichever side I was on, nothing made sense to me. That's not to say it's a bad thing it's just not my cup of tea unfortunately. I respect the team for working their hardest but it had me lost for a time and still am slight even after ARKS lore catchup thread.

if you’re gonna spend your time dumb trucking everyone and getting up in arms about a server you don’t play and have no interest in playing at least make your argument make sense

 

[Deleted member 906]

if you’re gonna spend your time dumb trucking everyone and getting up in arms about a server you don’t play and have no interest in playing at least make your argument make sense

 

[TedHatty]

I'm interested in hearing others takes on this current Metro map

 

[RedMan]

I don't believe the map is necessarily bad. It most certainly has its charms; those being the atmosphere, the "complexity" of the tunnels, and the general sense of unknown. However, given that the server population roughly reaches around ~40 to ~50 players, the half of which will likely end up playing as Combine, I think it was very unnecessary that the rebel cell groups built up their bases outside the Central Hub.

We have this massive station with a lot of space, a place to meet and such, to collaberate and recruit, yet it usually remains abandoned for the most of the time. I don't believe there is even a motive to go visit the Central Hub unless you want to talk to a Lambda Official, regroup with your teammates, or to simply use the water filter. It is such a lifeless place in comparison to what the map editor tried to potray and I think it ends up stinging any new players - especially if they have no equipment or motivation to explore the tunnels themselves.

Speaking of motivation, much like what others have stated, there are no real points of interest to explore within the tunnels. No one established any temporary safezones or any defensive structures which are noteworthy. You could go and explore these rebel cell group bases, but unless you come across them ICly, you really have no motivation to even explore the tunnels, unless it is to sedate the curiosity of the unknown.

 

[Alexander The Great]

it's just a map

one of many which we pass thru




but
remember, that a plain map no matter how good it may be
if there's no incentive for rp, (for when other ppl cant do events for u, u cant live on external made events only, staff aint there forever)

you'll get bored, no matter on what map.

when ur char has 0 BASIC physical needs, no hunger, thirst is fine
so ofc, he'll get bored doing nothing

human is bored, and cant rp as human, when his human basic needs he lives with IRL, are absent
how long can u go seeking adventure, or loot, or a fight
its a once in a while

and..... ya cant chatter to people 24/7
if couples were talking 24/7 they'd break up, cuz they'd run out of interesting things

so they all live in their own human needs struggle, which LEADS TO IRL RP

our irl living is always chasing some physical goal (comes from a need)
but the theatrical play, unfolds as we go thru it

u meet people on ur way to a restaurant (cuz u hungry), or a way to somewhere u go to fulfill a basic need
or at work (cuz u need money, for other needs)

imagine if u physical needs were 0
you'd be bored irl

metro map,
if hunger rate was proper good and made characters think about their survival, seeking food (bare minimum.)
would create so much rp, and incentivize events
the boredom would be so much less

idk about the penalties of the starvation, but at least give a bar sign that the HUMAN is experiencing SOME LACK needing fulfillment.

it's these repeating needs that create gameplay, and gameplay, creates theatrical play (roleplay, interaction, things to do IC)
same as u do irl
u have looping needs, that make u a human

imagine dayz without survival stats, (that actually matter)
sure, u can find a server where there are events
but what do you do IN THE MEANWHILE?
what worries, what needs, do u fulfill for ur character?
if he doesnt hunger, and his needs aren't of importance.

u can chat, but u run out of things to talk about, no matter how imaginative you are

u log out, till next event :)