Serious Discussion: WW3RP 'back to basics'... sortof

[Deleted member 61]

Reality of WW3RP, and all similar gamemodes.

It works fine with a large portion of it being S2K.

There can be people who are there for S2K, and there can be people there for RP.

The issue is when people who S2K take the piss out of people there for RP, to the point where people who RP believe their time is better spent elsewhere because people who contribute little to the server outside of Mouse 1 will take the piss out of RPers.

It's fine if S2Kers mind their own, respect the times they have to RP when being addressed or reprimanded, but if they start making a problem for people who are actually there for the betterment of other players, then they ought to be outright banned or dealt with in-character.

For the most part, lore doesn't have to be great. It just has to not be bad. I'm happy we've got pretty great lore. It's a great way to stop people from asspulling modern shit that doesn't belong and breaks immersion.

 

[aperson]

The issue is when people who S2K take the piss out of people there for RP

haha yeah imagine doing this

i think with everyone being older now it'll be better for rp, as well as putting people in officer roles who promote rp
also maybe more rp-based events (just not like @Snowl's)

 

[Rabid]

Don't act like with factions vs faction game modes that doesn't exist, I've seen many conflicts between cops and rebels on hl2rp. World war three's concept was always a transition between shooty shooty and roleplay, there's always going to be heated moments between players, even in tamer gamemodes like hl2rp there are feuds, dont act like that isn't a thing.

You're sort of missing my point here.

I'm not talking about the minor issues that are a thing in absolutely everything including HL2RP I'm talking about the absolute rampant toxicity and calculated power-grabs and OOC coups that took place across the gamemode's history, the systematic removal of roleplayers if they weren't conductive to shooty-bang-bang and worse that not only drove many people off but caused massive issues internally.

The confession thread wasn't just damning, it backed up basically everything the more vocal people who didn't fear public backlash had been saying for ages at that point (alongside former staff team members). Beyond the surface layer at many times across its lifespan, WW3RP was a nest of vipers.

People can brush this off and say it "wasn't a big deal" but when everyone from Roosebud to the staff team to the people who did it can admit it, is it not fact at that point that it was bigger than most realised?

That is all I am interested in preventing the return of. Not the petty shit.

Watching someone try to argue with the Server Director that he didn't know his own server's problems he'd sat through across WW3's lifetime for two pages was just sad.

i really really wish i had activity and playerbase statistics to compare between modern lore and cold war because i know for a fact it'll be seriously damning about claims of how popular the cold war eras were. initially? yes. it was new, fresh, a different take, a neat gimmick — but ultimately it became just that — a gimmick.

no one is claiming that modern lore was an objectively safe haven of trash because it wasn't. trash always gets through the cracks, but that's just how it is.

See above dude, I'm not making a point about the lore here.

 

[Roosebud]

I dont particulary care about having an 's2k crowd' and an 'rp crowd' who make memes about eachother or w/e

The issue with 'toxicity' came, for example, from stuff like someone literally posting the only fun he had on the gamemode was 'shitting on the other faction'.
That, and all that hatred flowing over into OOC stuff, leading to doxing, ddosing, pacts to sabotage the server or other players and a culture where certain people were ignored/excluded to the point where they just either came to me to talk about how shit they felt or just quit and never returned

 

[ddæ]

You're sort of missing my point here.

I'm not talking about the minor issues that are a thing in absolutely everything including HL2RP I'm talking about the absolute rampant toxicity and calculated power-grabs and OOC coups that took place across the gamemode's history, the systematic removal of roleplayers if they weren't conductive to shooty-bang-bang and worse that not only drove many people off but caused massive issues internally.

The confession thread wasn't just damning, it backed up basically everything the more vocal people who didn't fear public backlash had been saying for ages at that point (alongside former staff team members). Beyond the surface layer at many times across its lifespan, WW3RP was a nest of vipers.

People can brush this off and say it "wasn't a big deal" but when everyone from Roosebud to the staff team to the people who did it can admit it, is it not fact at that point that it was bigger than most realised?

That is all I am interested in preventing the return of. Not the petty shit.

Watching someone try to argue with the Server Director that he didn't know his own server's problems he'd sat through across WW3's lifetime for two pages was just sad.


See above dude, I'm not making a point about the lore here.

neither am i. all im saying is people are saying the 'serious' cold war approach was 'more popular' and 'better' but no statistic shows that

 

[Roosebud]

neither am i. all im saying is people are saying the 'serious' cold war approach was 'more popular' and 'better' but no statistic shows that

If you're referring to me, I don't recall ever saying it was 'more popular' or w/e, just that I don't see any overwhelming reason to change it, and that both concepts never really died 'naturally'. And I highlighted why I think the Globalist vs Coalition lore was very hard to work with.

 

[Rabid]

neither am i. all im saying is people are saying the 'serious' cold war approach was 'more popular' and 'better' but no statistic shows that

Personally man if people wanna run around having their S2K fun then more power to them; its something I could probably see myself poking into now for a laugh.

I just don't want this type of shit to become such a huge part of the server's workings behind closed doors again:

The issue with 'toxicity' came, for example, from stuff like someone literally posting the only fun he had on the gamemode was 'shitting on the other faction'.
That, and all that hatred flowing over into OOC stuff, leading to doxing, ddosing, pacts to sabotage the server or other players and a culture where certain people were ignored/excluded to the point where they just either came to me to talk about how shit they felt or just quit and never returned

Because fuck, being able to access WW3's archives for the short time I could back when I was SD (and before it got worse) was genuinely depressing.

 

[Deleted member 61]

neither am i. all im saying is people are saying the 'serious' cold war approach was 'more popular' and 'better' but no statistic shows that

lore is never the issue of ww3rp. it comes down to firstly, faction management to encourage the right playstyle, secondly gameplay mechanics, weapon base and equipment set up, and third, roleplay quality for the average player.

there are the three pillars of what can make or break ww3rp.

ww3rp without decent rpers is deathmatch, ww3rp without decent scripting/schema is shit, ww3rp without s2k isn't war. ww3rp without decent stable leaders turns into a vipers nest.

 

[Codfather]

The issue with 'toxicity' came, for example, from stuff like someone literally posting the only fun he had on the gamemode was 'shitting on the other faction'.

That seems relatively tame compared to other things that could be said. Besides, you act like that wasn't discouraged by a plethora of the community and that person would never get promoted and would most likely end up banned for being a minge.

That, and all that hatred flowing over into OOC stuff, leading to doxing, ddosing, pacts to sabotage the server or other players and a culture where certain people were ignored/excluded to the point where they just either came to me to talk about how shit they felt or just quit and never returned

You cannot sit behind doxing and ddosing as an escape goat to justify the gamemodes core mechanics were bad, that malicious activity we have seen through the entire history of the internet and is outright bannable, do you really think threats like that were just idly met with gasps? No, they were banned and exiled from the community.

Yes, circle jerking is an issue and it's something you cannot avoid due to it being a video game. If I had a penny for every time I've played HL2 and been locked away from RP because of a hidden base or, 'knowledge perms' I'd have at least a pound.

These problems are a result of the game being a GAME. Not a mishap with the games core mechanics.

 

[Deleted member 3818]

i really don't think toxicity is going to be that much of an issue. Obviously it's always gonna happen to some extent and people are gonna get mad and stuff but we were all autistic 15 year olds then who thought telling people to drink bleach was so haha epic gamer moment. the social climate in neb has improved drastically since then and even if you still get those types of people it's not going to be in an environment which encourages and facilitates that sort of behaviour.

 

[ddæ]

If you're referring to me, I don't recall ever saying it was 'more popular' or w/e, just that I don't see any overwhelming reason to change it, and that both concepts never really died 'naturally'. And I highlighted why I think the Globalist vs Coalition lore was very hard to work with.

no i'm not referring to you, if i was i would say. wdym both never really died naturally? if memory serves me correct the server was kept open for over a month in its most recent iteration and didn't get more than a bot player that constantly stayed in the server. is that not a natural death of a server to you?

lore is never the issue of ww3rp. it comes down to firstly, faction management to encourage the right playstyle, secondly gameplay mechanics, weapon base and equipment set up, and third, roleplay quality for the average player.

there are the three pillars of what can make or break ww3rp.

ww3rp without decent rpers is deathmatch, ww3rp without decent scripting/schema is shit, ww3rp without s2k isn't war. ww3rp without decent stable leaders turns into a vipers nest.

and what does all of that hinge on? a story. a lore. the faction management, gameplay mechanics and equipment setup you're talking about follows the story, right? the post important foundation. what direction can your faction be managed towards if they're not given dick for a story and told to run their stuff?

 

[Deleted member 61]

i really don't think toxicity is going to be that much of an issue. Obviously it's always gonna happen to some extent and people are gonna get mad and stuff but we were all autistic 15 year olds then who thought telling people to drink bleach was so haha epic gamer moment. the social climate in neb has improved drastically since then and even if you still get those types of people it's not going to be in an environment which encourages and facilitates that sort of behaviour.

you make it sounds as if the majority of toxic people from ww3rp just stuck around. are you really sure they've all matured since they were 15 and autistic?

the ones that post here without flaming or ill-will aren't particularly the 'problemed' ones from back in the day.

 

[Roosebud]

That seems relatively tame compared to other things that could be said. Besides, you act like that wasn't discouraged by a plethora of the community and that person would never get promoted and would most likely end up banned for being a minge.

It was an example of a literal post on the 'confessions thread' that highlighted the dominant mentality back then.

You cannot sit behind doxing and ddosing as an escape goat to justify the gamemodes core mechanics were bad, that malicious activity we have seen through the entire history of the internet and is outright bannable, do you really think threats like that were just idly met with gasps? No, they were banned and exiled from the community.

Yes, circle jerking is an issue and it's something you cannot avoid due to it being a video game. If I had a penny for every time I've played HL2 and been locked away from RP because of a hidden base or, 'knowledge perms' I'd have at least a pound.

These problems are a result of the game being a GAME. Not a mishap with the games core mechanics.

And I never said the core mechanics were the root cause of it. But a setting having two cloned factions with zero difference between them does contribute to people putting the focus on 'beating' the other team more. That's not necessarily bad in a war gamemode, it just means people have to remind themselves / be reminded that it is a game and they should be careful not to let it cross into actual hatred and OOC-drama.

I posted that in reference to people having the discussion about toxicity on the old iterations, and that people appear to confuse 'actual' toxicity with a meme culture, the latter not necessarily being all that bad as long as it doesnt hinder others.

 

[Deleted member 3818]

you make it sounds as if the majority of toxic people from ww3rp just stuck around. are you really sure they've all matured since they were 15 and autistic?

the ones that post here without flaming or ill-will aren't particularly the 'problemed' ones from back in the day.

i mean i reckon most of them probably have grown up and moved on, and like I said even if they're still like that and they come back around they're not going to be well received in the community anymore and I doubt they'd last very long.

 

[Dallas]

we should make new stories and not try and bring back what is in the past, chasing nostalgia never makes you happy

 

[ddæ]

we should make new stories and not try and bring back what is in the past, chasing nostalgia never makes you happy

better than chasing the same concept of a cold war setting 3 times in a row now imo hoping "just this time we'll do it different" is enough. it's not.

 

[Roosebud]

we should make new stories and not try and bring back what is in the past, chasing nostalgia never makes you happy

And that's why this is an altered concept based on the formula people wanted, instead of just being a copy-paste of old ww3rp

 

[Deleted member 61]

we should make new stories and not try and bring back what is in the past, chasing nostalgia never makes you happy

what about this?
https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Fourth_Corporate_War

i believe this would unironically be successful in a ww3rp format.

 

[Codfather]

And I never said the core mechanics were the root cause of it. But a setting having two cloned factions with zero difference between them does contribute to people putting the focus on 'beating' the other team more. That's not necessarily bad in a war gamemode, it just means people have to remind themselves / be reminded that it is a game and they should be careful not to let it cross into actual hatred and OOC-drama.
.

Please try explaining this to millions of gamers world wide, it is a game as I stated before, people are bound to get heated and those that take it too far will get banned. Resolutions between players were often seen and they soon realised it was a video game after the fabled gamer rage lost its effect.

It was an example of a literal post on the 'confessions thread' that highlighted the dominant mentality back then.

I'm pretty confident the scope of admissions were definitely stretched amongst years of the game mode being a thing, and that of course they were most likely told off for their actions if they were found out, the reason they confessed is because they felt somewhat guilty and knew it was wrong, and most likely have matured since then

 

[Dallas]

better than chasing the same concept of a cold war setting 3 times in a row now imo hoping "just this time we'll do it different" is enough. it's not.

im not advocating that at all

im saying ww3 should try something new or be something else entirely like any of the other discussions in this general section