Serious Discussion: WW3RP 'back to basics'... sortof

WW3RP

  • Yes with the idea in the thread

  • Yes, but.... (comment below)

  • No

  • No, but... (comment below)

  • Other (comment below)


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Deleted member 61

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Artillery is best served as smoke cover.

Contrary to the opinions of some doubters in chat, I'm going to be a good dutiful necromancer and return to my cave to revive WW3RP, despite the village's wishes.

la la la

can't hear you

la la
 

Roosebud

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you guys do you but theres some recipes that don't get better no matter how many times you try to change them and at the end of the day 9/10 people won't consider the ramifications before casting their vote

I sorta get your point, however this mostly sounds like it's a broken concept that cannot be fixed.

In essence the concept was always very simple and sustainable, if you put in the bare minimum effort of changing the map every month or two it'd essentially be enough to keep people playing. If we historically look at the iterations they "died" because either the community surrounding it closed or we decided to close it. Aside from Stasiland ofcourse, which was more or less forcibly closed after people just outright refused to play it.

Which is what the point about admin involvement mostly referred to. Unlike concepts like TRP, Frundtech etc etc you don't need 24/7 admin interaction to keep things going as that's what both sides cover themselves.
 
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Rabid

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I sorta get your point, however this mostly sounds like it's a broken concept that cannot be fixed.

In essence the concept was always very simple and sustainable, if you put in the bare minimum effort of changing the map every month or two it'd essentially be enough to keep people playing. If we historically look at the iterations they "died" because either the community surrounding it closed or we decided to close it. Aside from Stasiland ofcourse, which was more or less forcibly closed after people just outright refused to play it.

Which is what the point about admin involvement mostly referred to. Unlike concepts like TRP, Frundtech etc etc you don't need 24/7 admin interaction to keep things going as that's what both sides cover themselves.
But is that worth putting yourselves through? Managing the toxicity and effectively letting the server roll on the merits of S2K more than RP?

You could set the server on auto-pilot but the risk of that is it'll let the bad apples creep in and we're back to the races in six months.
 
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Deleted member 61

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I sorta get your point, however this mostly sounds like it's a broken concept that cannot be fixed.

In essence the concept was always very simple and sustainable, if you put in the bare minimum effort of changing the map every month or two it'd essentially be enough to keep people playing. If we historically look at the iterations they "died" because either the community surrounding it closed or we decided to close it. Aside from Stasiland ofcourse, which was more or less forcibly closed after people just outright refused to play it.

Which is what the point about admin involvement mostly referred to. Unlike concepts like TRP, Frundtech etc etc you don't need 24/7 admin interaction to keep things going as that's what both sides cover themselves.

WW3RP for all its time required little staff management to sustain itself outside of people banning players for rule breaking. Even that, people used ban requests back then. All WW3RP needed was a barebones lore staff to point towards the next direction and faction oversight.

Events, I felt, were just icing on the cake that stood on its own.

I feel it was only when we began to experiment that we struggled with our identity.
 

Nömad <3

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Naturally, and it's hard to say how the playerbase/community will be seeing as how we all changed a lot and some people have left.

I reckon we'd have to remove the focus on promotions as well, as they should be functions instead of rewards. Probably have the main reward item be either requistion/supplies, medals etc and have promotions be application-based.



Yeah I believe I mentioned it in the post, both sides will have these radios and will have to place/maintain repeaters throughout the map or make better use of radiomen.
I swear, if I come back from the dead and return to this Godforsaken land just to be the only Radio Operator consistently on for the Russians I'm calling in Danger Close on you all.
 

Sil

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well now that it's over

i got PKed with the Mortar Tube on my insurgent so thats why the big group (potentially) suddenly had their mortar firepower go missing.

Not a clue what happened afterwards but yeah sorry about that
 

Roosebud

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But is that worth putting yourselves through? Managing the toxicity and effectively letting the server roll on the merits of S2K more than RP?

You could set the server on auto-pilot but the risk of that is it'll let the bad apples creep in and we're back to the races.

I'm not saying set it on autopilot, I'm stating that it doesn't require constant 24/7 dedicated staff involvement to keep it alive.

I get your point about the playerbase, god knows I've experienced the worst sides of it. But I don't think we should let the fear of s2k attracting 'the usual crowd' dictate any sort of decision making surrounding the concept. I know it's been said time and time again, but at this point I wouldn't feel particulary bad about simply kicking people out of the gamemode if it needs doing, even if it sacrifices playercount, we did it with stasiland too.
 
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Hiros

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But is that worth putting yourselves through? Managing the toxicity and effectively letting the server roll on the merits of S2K more than RP?

You could set the server on auto-pilot but the risk of that is it'll let the bad apples creep in and we're back to the races.
Tbf people preferred S2K. There was good RP at base and such but It's hard to say whether players get toxic because it's been so long since we had last WW3RP that some people could've grow up from it. I dunno honestly
 
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Deleted member 61

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On reflection, I feel as if to a point, we were over-zealous on the S2K elements of WW3RP in fear of the consequences if that became all everybody did that we ended up losing people who were old WW3RPers that did roleplay, however enjoyed S2K and combat on the field, and the tense situations where you're critically wounded, your timer is on five minutes and you hear a different language coming towards you. There was definitely a sort of rush that you got back in the day.

What I believe should be changed is that faction warfare should be relatively similar to the old types. Basic weapon vendor for each faction. Soviets have detachments with specific assigned weapons while insurgency has to pay, but has free range. Civilians (non-combatants by choice, unless in life or death situations) get passive money as well as staff support in creating an establishment/home/setup that they're interested in having and roleplaying in. Either staff can be giving them options for stock for the sake of roleplay or there can be some sort of supplier flags. Civilians can either be extorted, robbed, or donated by/for the insurgent faction which will use those funds to pay for weapons/ammo. Their basic weapons will be relatively cheap. It will be encouraged that insurgents who pull off successful heists, schemes, etc. to make money also spread the wealth, weapons, gear to other insurgents to strengthen themselves as a whole, despite them not particularly being a sole entity like the Soviets.

This would more or less work like

  • Soviet basic vendor, access to free basic AK. Ammo costs req to avoid hoarding/full pouches.
  • Alternative weapons cost slightly more than the insurgent vendor, however, Soviets get passive income, plus rewards from COs after field ops.
  • Ease of access to radio communications.
  • Ease of access to artillery, armored vehicles, aircraft, etc. Limited by faction management discretion and an effort to fight 'even/retaliatory' fights.
  • Orthodox hierarchy of Soviet military.
  • Detachment of GDR state officials.
  • Put a hold on the undercover Stasi operations and allow for solid structure to be build among insurgents, preferably naturally with PBGs.

  • Insurgent basic vendor, access to free pistol, cheap pistol ammo.
  • Alternative weapons are relatively cheap, however, insurgent earn money from either being given it by civilians or by extorting, scheming, robbing them (or Soviets for that matter, however, included in rules should be a max amount).
  • Crafting materials should be purchaseable from a vendor in limited and refreshing quantities to give independence from the script spawner and admin intervention. If someone wants to roleplay this role, fine go ahead, but I doubt you do.
  • Allow PBGs to determine the flow of their story. The server should be enjoyable with two insurgents, passive roleplaying and perhaps, taking potshots and then fleeing the scene as it is with an entire organized militia opposing the Soviets from their compound.
  • Encourage their leaders to discuss ideas with staff of potential events, or scenarios they might want to 'script' for the sake of story, entertainment.
  • Make insurgents a ridiculously stupid threat. Overwhelmingly so. Give their vendor access to RPGs, landmines and artillery pieces. Keep their ability to craft tanks and helicopters.
  • Allow insurgents/civilians to pick a single crafting flag upon character creation and then have them apply if they want another.

  • Push lore further in time and Eastward to justify the lack of NATO presence and a surging insurgent force.

If we want to really talk about a server that runs itself, lets talk about the necessity of vendors and a passive income, despite the 'sensibility' of it. If you want to make a server such as WW3RP sustainable, we have to look back at what worked and what didn't. Even militia had a basic income. What I can see working is taking the militia from old WW3RP and fleshing it out with crafting, crafting flags and weapon selection. Start off weak, but able to become extremely powerful if enough cash is made to buy the better equipment. I don't think we particularly want a 'BMD' that can have its own power structure and effect on the server, although, it could be nice. I don't know if that would create more problem than it would solve.

With militia being a unique faction in which, you can start your own cause, make your own money-making schemes to fund it and a basic starting set up that can get you 'in it', I think there's a definite fresh face to the server. I think it could work well.
 
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Northgate

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On reflection, I feel as if to a point, we were over-zealous on the S2K elements of WW3RP in fear of the consequences if that became all everybody did that we ended up losing people who were old WW3RPers that did roleplay, however enjoyed S2K and combat on the field, and the tense situations where you're critically wounded, your timer is on five minutes and you hear a different language coming towards you. There was definitely a sort of rush that you got back in the day.

What I believe should be changed is that faction warfare should be relatively similar to the old types. Basic weapon vendor for each faction. Soviets have detachments with specific assigned weapons while insurgency has to pay, but has free range. Civilians (non-combatants by choice, unless in life or death situations) get passive money as well as staff support in creating an establishment/home/setup that they're interested in having and roleplaying in. Either staff can be giving them options for stock for the sake of roleplay or there can be some sort of supplier flags. Civilians can either be extorted, robbed, or donated by/for the insurgent faction which will use those funds to pay for weapons/ammo. Their basic weapons will be relatively cheap. It will be encouraged that insurgents who pull off successful heists, schemes, etc. to make money also spread the wealth, weapons, gear to other insurgents to strengthen themselves as a whole, despite them not particularly being a sole entity like the Soviets.

This would more or less work like

  • Soviet basic vendor, access to free basic AK. Ammo costs req to avoid hoarding/full pouches.
  • Alternative weapons cost slightly more than the insurgent vendor, however, Soviets get passive income, plus rewards from COs after field ops.
  • Ease of access to radio communications.
  • Ease of access to artillery, armored vehicles, aircraft, etc. Limited by faction management discretion and an effort to fight 'even/retaliatory' fights.
  • Orthodox hierarchy of Soviet military.
  • Detachment of GDR state officials.
  • Put a hold on the undercover Stasi operations and allow for solid structure to be build among insurgents, preferably naturally with PBGs.

  • Insurgent basic vendor, access to free pistol, cheap pistol ammo.
  • Alternative weapons are relatively cheap, however, insurgent earn money from either being given it by civilians or by extorting, scheming, robbing them (or Soviets for that matter, however, included in rules should be a max amount).
  • Crafting materials should be purchaseable from a vendor in limited and refreshing quantities to give independence from the script spawner and admin intervention. If someone wants to roleplay this role, fine go ahead, but I doubt you do.
  • Allow PBGs to determine the flow of their story. The server should be enjoyable with two insurgents, passive roleplaying and perhaps, taking potshots and then fleeing the scene as it is with an entire organized militia opposing the Soviets from their compound.
  • Encourage their leaders to discuss ideas with staff of potential events, or scenarios they might want to 'script' for the sake of story, entertainment.
  • Make insurgents a ridiculously stupid threat. Overwhelmingly so. Give their vendor access to RPGs, landmines and artillery pieces. Keep their ability to craft tanks and helicopters.
  • Allow insurgents/civilians to pick a single crafting flag upon character creation and then have them apply if they want another.

  • Push lore further in time and Eastward to justify the lack of NATO presence and a surging insurgent force.

If we want to really talk about a server that runs itself, lets talk about the necessity of vendors and a passive income, despite the 'sensibility' of it. If you want to make a server such as WW3RP sustainable, we have to look back at what worked and what didn't. Even militia had a basic income. What I can see working is taking the militia from old WW3RP and fleshing it out with crafting, crafting flags and weapon selection. Start off weak, but able to become extremely powerful if enough cash is made to buy the better equipment. I don't think we particularly want a 'BMD' that can have its own power structure and effect on the server, although, it could be nice. I don't know if that would create more problem than it would solve.

With militia being a unique faction in which, you can start your own cause, make your own money-making schemes to fund it and a basic starting set up that can get you 'in it', I think there's a definite fresh face to the server. I think it could work well.


While I agree with most of those points, I'd be careful when allowing Insurgents to 'rob / extorted'. It's a good point still, as some insurgents are always only in it for the wealth even in real life. But perhaps introduce some 'reputation' to them as well, either something OOC which decides what quality of supplies they get (i.e: if they treat the locals well, without too much collateral they get better supplies). This could be for the Soviets as well, allowing collateral to be a more considerable factor.


If we go on about Civilians in this iteration, it'd be important to make them a good support faction, which if bargained with can lead to some advantages to either side. This would give them a role in the general meta, and allow them to interact with the rest of the world as well and not be wholly out of place.


Regarding supplies: We should definetly have a good logistics system, even for civilians. It was a major problem in the last iteration, where the only way to get supplies at all were from the Stasi, and even then -- it was very difficult. I'd not want to see bureaucracy again, to facilitate getting basic items (like food, supplies etc) I think a supplier would be cool - or an OOC stock system as you suggested.
 

Roosebud

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Regarding supplies: We should definetly have a good logistics system, even for civilians. It was a major problem in the last iteration, where the only way to get supplies at all were from the Stasi, and even then -- it was very difficult. I'd not want to see bureaucracy again, to facilitate getting basic items (like food, supplies etc) I think a supplier would be cool - or an OOC stock system as you suggested.

I think we mainly have to keep in mind that it's supposed to be a soft return to the old WW3RP with a couple of new elements. I don't think the civilian aspect should be too big or have too much consequences etc. Back on old WW3RP the civilians were just a small premium benefit without much rules, the main focus should 100% be on both factions and the war they fight.
 
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