hl2rp² feedback thread 2.0²

[MaXenzie]

That's my entire point, really! One side is being given crumbs told to deal with it while rebels are given the tools they need to not be bored doing 24/7 passive anymore.

Put rebels in the cops shoes and they'd do exactly what cops are doing right now if it meant finding something to do. No faction can exist on passive all day, as much as I love passive.



Because rebels routinely get access to, and included in, really cool RP scenarios on the side - both via event runners and by dint of people just dropping shit to do on them. When you know you'll get something cool maybe in a few hours or tomorrow, its easy to sit and passive and relax without care.

Hell, why did rebels go out to the lighthouse to begin with? Because they were getting a cool thing done for them. Why did cops go on patrol? To find something to do themselves.

i dont want to run events for cops because i dont like cops

no idea how im going to run character-driven events keying off a backstory when they're all identical faceless goons with names like "GIMP-6" and "ECHO-4" or whatever

 

[Rabid]

i dont want to run events for cops because i dont like cops

no idea how im going to run character-driven events keying off a backstory when they're all identical faceless goons with names like "GIMP-6" and "ECHO-4" or whatever

See but I think you are falling into the most common problem Neb's always had.

You don't see cops as characters. You take the taglines and see them outside of base and write them off entirely, decide you aren't going to work with them and thus they're pushed to making their own enjoyment - even if its inconvenient for the other side. But that's what happens and has always happened to the faction.

In every case where event runners have taken a chance on cops and given them engagement and made them think, they've been shocked by how receptive and good-quality their roleplay is. Its happened time and time again. On the contrary, when cops get fed cookie-cutter cop events, guess what you're gonna see, y'know?

Its your right to not work with cops if you don't want to, and I can kinda get it, but I won't pretend this issue doesn't compound itself on a wider scale.

 

['77 East]

if rebels can manage to create their own rp without shooting at shit, why cant cops?

hard to do when 90% of the civil protection players who emphasized exactly that were shunted out by people who only come on the server to play shooting gallery: source with 839 tickrate.

One side is being given crumbs told to deal with it while rebels are given the tools they need to not be bored doing 24/7 passive anymore.

rabid, even when they were given much more than 'crumbs' it was still demanded that cops were to be s2k-oriented first and foremost.

the 'both sides' is a regurgitative argument, especially when it wasn't that way it was radically altered to turn back towards that status quo precisely because a few of the 'vocal minority' demanded it to be, and they had leadership say-so and others didn't, so it went back to the old norm and here we are, still debating whether or not cops should be given gimmick events when half of those in the seat don't even want it, they just want to create more montages.

i dont want to run events for cops because i dont like cops

no idea how im going to run character-driven events keying off a backstory when they're all identical faceless goons with names like "GIMP-6" and "ECHO-4" or whatever

here's the solution to make it easy:

pick out the ones who play characters and not the same self-insert bloodthirsty gimmick that they've kept using despite being PK'd multiple times already, sort through those for candidates and then you have a list of cops to grab for events.

alternatively just start questioning them indirectly and if they show actual deductive reasoning for being a bastard and aren't a CPOG regurgitation proxy give them a chance.

You don't see cops as characters.

to be fair to max, I was in the faction for a while and half the roster didn't see themselves as one either

it became obvious when types like C45.75.SHITFUCKER-# got killed off and replaced with a direct personality clone.

In every case where event runners have taken a chance on cops and given them engagement and made them think, they've been shocked by how receptive and good-quality their roleplay is.

also not to steal your thunder and go 'actuhtuaLLY SiR' to everything

but there was that one time @Baker tried making an engaging event about thinking outside of orders and it deteriorated down to 'kill the girl because...'

 

[Rabid]

but there was that one time @Baker tried making an engaging event about thinking outside of orders and it deteriorated down to 'kill the girl because...'

Fair, but you know what I mean at least lmao

Besides, despite what some people will try and claim there is a reason that even in rebel events it was common for the maker to pick a handful of people they knew would be quality and would engage with things rather than scooping up randoms. Rebels weren't really any better in most cases unless you cherrypicked.

But with cops the go-to was to throw them (mostly) into events where they had to do cop shit and then mock them for doing cop shit. By contrast, look at something like Emperess? With the exception of someone who sold everyone to the rebels in 0.5 seconds lmao

 

[MaXenzie]

See but I think you are falling into the most common problem Neb's always had.

You don't see cops as characters. You take the taglines and see them outside of base and write them off entirely, decide you aren't going to work with them and thus they're pushed to making their own enjoyment - even if its inconvenient for the other side. But that's what happens and has always happened to the faction.

In every case where event runners have taken a chance on cops and given them engagement and made them think, they've been shocked by how receptive and good-quality their roleplay is. Its happened time and time again. On the contrary, when cops get fed cookie-cutter cop events, guess what you're gonna see, y'know?

Its your right to not work with cops if you don't want to, and I can kinda get it, but I won't pretend this issue doesn't compound itself on a wider scale.

i'll give more of an explanation since you're cool

i cant even have john doe do a thing without a headcop (someone who ipso facto should have no fucking authority over me, as a not-cop) looming over my shoulder telling me i cant do that because it would impact the cops (a faction i dont play)

i have no idea how i'd be able to run an event with any storytelling freedom when i've got people i dont even know watching me like a hawk ensuring its "good for their faction"

if i bring in an NPC that knows a cops name, am i risking getting that cop PK'd for something they had no impact on?
if i force the cops in an event into a situation where they have to act contrary to dispatch or orders received, am i risking them getting PK'd for a situation i didn't intend to result in a PK?
if i make an event where cops and rebels have to work together to fight a more prevalent evil, will those cops be executed the moment the event is over?

i can't definitively say no to any of those questions.
i don't want to run events for cops because i don't want them to lose their characters for reasons outside of my control, and i don't want my event to be canned midway through because something happened that upset faction leads

 

['77 East]

But with cops the go-to was to throw them (mostly) into events where they had to do cop shit and then mock them for doing cop shit. By contrast, look at something like Emperess? With the exception of someone who sold everyone to the rebels in 0.5 seconds lmao

End of the day the best way we were able to corral cops into being themselves was to ensure that any no-lifer guidebook huffer wasn't going to fuck them over for every tiny mistake they made or character flaw that existed that made them an actual character.

It was that simple.

As soon as that happened, surprise, cops started being themselves instead of fearing that some overzealous Rank Leader would stroll up and shoot them a week later because they dared to smoke a cigarette in a briefing room that had some event official in it, try to bargain for someone to surrender themselves into custody instead of straight up shooting them dead, or have the audacity to question orders - not refuse, merely question the reasoning for them - instead of acting like a robot from the outset.

Besides, despite what some people will try and claim there is a reason that even in rebel events it was common for the maker to pick a handful of people they knew would be quality and would engage with things.

Oh, certainly. Just as the inverse was the reason the event blacklist existed.

Most of us always had a # of slots to devote to new people or take a chance on people who were fresh or didn't know very well, though, and it's not like if no one we knew applied we were going to just trash the event.

I think HO1 had a cast of twelve, 55% of people - half - I'd never known before and HO2, maybe that was 42% - even though we had a much bigger population of 30 slots for it? Due to the popularity of the first and all the people who applied.

 

[Rabid]

i cant even have john doe do a thing without a headcop (someone who ipso facto should have no fucking authority over me, as a not-cop) looming over my shoulder telling me i cant do that because it would impact the cops (a faction i dont play)

I mean to be entirely fair, you were going to get a full cop suit + gear (even if you weren't going to use it in S2K) in a manner that would be impossible to get it in under any other circumstance. That's also why, I think, you got denied the OTA body back on Apoc.

I get the frustration, but those are very specific circumstances I think?

if i bring in an NPC that knows a cops name, am i risking getting that cop PK'd for something they had no impact on?
if i force the cops in an event into a situation where they have to act contrary to dispatch or orders received, am i risking them getting PK'd for a situation i didn't intend to result in a PK?
if i make an event where cops and rebels have to work together to fight a more prevalent evil, will those cops be executed the moment the event is over?

No to all of these, because Dispatch isn't a thing and even then, there's always exceptions made for events even under the most strict of HC's! Hell, the whole rebels-and-cops-teaming-up was done under the likes of Pumpkin with no issues and now there's no Dispatch or anything involved.

 

[Tinbe]

It's not impossible to make your own fun on CivPro side. Back in C14, I saw a bunch of Xen crystals lying around, so what did my loose cannon cop make of it? Made lemonade.

She would've had baggies of Xenian crack crystal, but unfortunately, said cop's sudden passing (turns out /charfallovering in s2k to injuryRP unconsciousness, getting robbed blind and then shot by rebels is a PK) meant the app verdict to use them as custom scripts couldn't come through in time.

 

[MaXenzie]

It's not impossible to make your own fun on CivPro side. Back in C14, I saw a bunch of Xen crystals lying around, so what did my loose cannon cop make of it? Made lemonade.

She would've had baggies of Xenian crack crystal, but unfortunately, said cop's sudden passing (turns out /charfallovering in s2k to injuryRP unconsciousness, getting robbed blind and then shot by rebels is a PK) meant the app verdict to use them as custom scripts couldn't come through in time.

apparently when life gives you xen crystals...

 

[Blackquill]

Thread has been cleaned up a bit

Trust me, stuff like this is best settled amicably instead of angry snark.

 

[rob]

if we could reach a compromise where cops have something to do that doesn't involve screwing a good portion of the server over that'd be nice

 

[Trains]

if we could reach a compromise where cops have something to do that doesn't involve screwing a good portion of the server over that'd be nice

for server with an active population of let’s say 30-40 people at BEST, on a game mode that barely has 200 people still actively playing, methinks maybe this is a good idea

not a dig at the server, just
yk

 

[MaXenzie]

if we could reach a compromise where cops have something to do that doesn't involve screwing a good portion of the server over that'd be nice

i'd rack my brain to think of stuff the antagonist faction could do that doesn't involve antagonising (while still being of significant value from a storytelling perspective)

it's a core flaw of the setting as a roleplay setting, the cops exist to be evil assholes and maintain the satus quo of a dictatorial genocide state

anything that doesn't affirm that ranges from being unrelated to the combine thematically, or diametrically opposed to it

 

[rob]

i'd rack my brain to think of stuff the antagonist faction could do that doesn't involve antagonising (while still being of significant value from a storytelling perspective)

it's a core flaw of the setting as a roleplay setting, the cops exist to be evil assholes and maintain the satus quo of a dictatorial genocide state

anything that doesn't affirm that ranges from being unrelated to the combine thematically, or diametrically opposed to it

yeah I can't actually think of anything, it's just sad seeing a good chunk of the server dipping out when the numbers are already as low as they are now

 

[MaXenzie]

yeah I can't actually think of anything, it's just sad seeing a good chunk of the server dipping out when the numbers are already as low as they are now

my take is that unless the server radically (and i mean RADICALLY) changes, we're gonna suffer the same problems going forward

the playerbase is, at best, always halfed due to cops and non-cops having to hang out in completely different areas

the two-sided playerbase is encouraged to be hostile to each other through pavlovian response and intense violence in-game

due to the server basically being WW3RP-lite people care more about "balance" and "fairness" over telling a good story

 

[boots]

Most of the time cops are engaging in passive RP inside their hideout. The one time a day they leave base, people complain that something/event was interrupted. So what is the solution?

 

[Trains]

Most of the time cops are engaging in passive RP inside their hideout. The one time a day they leave base, people complain that something/event was interrupted. So what is the solution?

do events for cops maybe

 

[MaXenzie]

Most of the time cops are engaging in passive RP inside their hideout. The one time a day they leave base, people complain that something/event was interrupted. So what is the solution?

merge the cops and resistance together and pit them against a greater foe so that the server is no longer built on an antagonistic dichotomy and we can focus on cooperative storytelling against an enemy that is predominantly played by staff.

 

[boots]

do events for cops maybe

but why dont you do events for cops

 

[Mike65536]

merge the cops and resistance together and pit them against a greater foe so that the server is no longer built on an antagonistic dichotomy and we can focus on cooperative storytelling against an enemy that is predominantly played by staff.

Funny part is, we have shown this is possible. When K-5 went rouge rebs allowed them inside to negotiate. Only after both sides came to a consensus was K-5 killed, with the body allowed to be recovered after.