Valorant - A free FPS from RIOT Games

[`impulse]

Honestly, all they really needed to do was make bans more severe rather than create a rootkit anti-cheat. HWID bans are the real stepping stone, and will probably stop a lot of people from cheating.

I mean how are you supposed to detect cheats without an anticheat lol

Either way you can spoof hardware guid's pretty easily

 

[mårten]

honestly, if it is spyware (and I doubt it) and they do anything illegal, that's just fuel for a class action lawsuit so you might get money, and if they don't get sued most likely they aren't doing illegal, now if they start mining bitcoin and using more ram we are going to have problems.

i highly doubt one of the richest companies in the world (Tencent) would have any incentive to mine for bitcoins using riot games vanguard
ESEA prolly did it because it's completely dead everywhere but NA

 

[switch]

I mean how are you supposed to detect cheats without an anticheat lol

Either way you can spoof hardware guid's pretty easily

You can make an anti-cheat without rootkits, there are plenty. And it doesn't really seem to ever do anything but cause issues.

 

[SpaceInvader]

People are calling it maleware which is pretty fucking funny if you actually know a little bit about programming



Like this guy

 

[`impulse]

You can make an anti-cheat without rootkits, there are plenty. And it doesn't really seem to ever do anything but cause issues.

Sure you can. But again, it wont be as effective as any other anti cheat that's reputable like battleye and easy anti cheat. Very few people get issues with these cheats in general, and the only issue people have with valorant's anti cheat so far is... that it's doing the same thing as the rest of them

Just look at VAC and how well that's doing

 

[SpaceInvader]

Sure you can. But again, it wont be as effective as any other anti cheat that's reputable like battleye and easy anti cheat. Very few people get issues with these cheats in general, and the only issue people have with valorant's anti cheat so far is... that it's doing the same thing as the rest of them

Just look at VAC and how well that's doing

This is what you get when you don't want a rootkit. Then you'll have to go to another third party to install your rootkit that way because the rest is filled with cheaters

 

[Zombine]

i want to play it but i don't like riot since their support team is such shit
probably will play anyway but won't spend any money on it.
i like the UI design and the way the abilities look though, very clean.

 

[`impulse]

i want to play it but i don't like riot since their support team is such shit
probably will play anyway but won't spend any money on it.
i like the UI design and the way the abilities look though, very clean.

region locked accounts btw hehe
[doublepost=1587080700][/doublepost]riot are LITERALLY the only company doing region locking nowadays it's a joke

 

[Zombine]

region locked accounts btw hehe
[doublepost=1587080700][/doublepost]riot are LITERALLY the only company doing region locking nowadays it's a joke

probably don't want people invading the chinese servers and typing "tianenmen square"

 

[Mic15000]

probably don't want people invading the chinese servers and typing "tianenmen square"

Typing what? Are you leaving it up to interpretation? There's nothing there

 

[Zombine]

Typing what? Are you leaving it up to interpretation? There's nothing there

ah you must have your chinese VPN on

 

[surra]

is it actual region lock or is it just like the league system where you can make accounts for different regions?

 

[`impulse]

You can make accounts for different regions, but you get assigned the region on signup (which means you have to use a vpn), and it's even more annoying during the closed beta because you have to grind twitch streams for another key

 

[Revanox]

This is what you get when you don't want a rootkit. Then you'll have to go to another third party to install your rootkit that way because the rest is filled with cheaters

lemme readdress that
a rootkit

with ring 0, KERNEL ACCESS (highest access possible)

that is what I call the biggest backdoor

 

[cloudperson]

i wouldn't mind it if they provided some proof riot weren't sending data they didn't need (eg: what you browse on the internet) to tencent and other chinese companies

also the fact you're not able to use it on a virtual machine is really sus imho, at least then ppl who are really worried about that sorta thing have the reassurance that the only thing tencent knows about them is that they play valorant

 

[Deleted member 3818]

I know little about programming and such but surely this isn't just your average anticheat if all this fuss is being made about it? Either way I think people shouldn't be so quick to look past it thinking that a video game company won't exploit your data for its own profits, especially since it's now a chinese owned business.

 

[Mic15000]

I know little about programming and such but surely this isn't just your average anticheat if all this fuss is being made about it? Either way I think people shouldn't be so quick to look past it thinking that a video game company won't exploit your data for its own profits, especially since it's now a chinese owned business.

I think the biggest worry I have is not the company, (which in itself has been seen to share data in the past and even lied to customers) but what if someone like a hacker manages to hijack that program, which turns on as soon as you turn your PC on AND has administrative power. They could easily take a lot of your info.

And even now in the Closed beta, there have been cheaters, so if cheaters are going to be present either way, I think they should scale it back to active only when you turn on the game like Fortnite and apex do, sure there are cheaters but there are already are right now. After all cheating in videogames is a multi-million dollar industry and you see people in Ferraris that just do cheats.

So maybe instead of focusing entirely on anti-cheat, they should hire more people to supervise the game and be quick to ban cheaters.

Although Riot has been quick to say that they will take the feedback and it is possible that they will scale down the anti-cheat, so we will have to see.

 

[Deleted member 3818]

I think the biggest worry I have is not the company, (which in itself has been seen to share data in the past and even lied to customers) but what if someone like a hacker manages to hijack that program, which turns on as soon as you turn your PC on AND has administrative power. They could easily take a lot of your info.

And even now in the Closed beta, there have been cheaters, so if cheaters are going to be present either way, I think they should scale it back to active only when you turn on the game like Fortnite and apex do, sure there are cheaters but there are already are right now. After all cheating in videogames is a multi-million dollar industry and you see people in Ferraris that just do cheats.

So maybe instead of focusing entirely on anti-cheat, they should hire more people to supervise the game and be quick to ban cheaters.

Although Riot has been quick to say that they will take the feedback and it is possible that they will scale down the anti-cheat, so we will have to see.

exactly, riot really should have a big disclaimer that provides you with the information about it and the potential risks that could even happen on their behalf before you install the program. Much like with any nefarious sort of thing, experienced cheaters will always find their way around prevention systems and it seems like having a good team to review suspected hackers gameplay can be more effective at solving the problem. Whether they do something about it or not probably depends on how much backlash they get, even if they decide to try and exploit players they'd probably just get 'cancelled' for a week until they pump out a new dlc and some good press until everyone forgets about it though.

 

[`impulse]

lemme readdress that
a rootkit

with ring 0, KERNEL ACCESS (highest access possible)

that is what I call the biggest backdoor

Yep, that's what happens when cheats also run in ring 0

See also: easy anti cheat, battleye. You're touting "RING 0" and "KERNEL ACCESS" as if this hasn't been done for literal years already

i wouldn't mind it if they provided some proof riot weren't sending data they didn't need (eg: what you browse on the internet) to tencent and other chinese companies

also the fact you're not able to use it on a virtual machine is really sus imho, at least then ppl who are really worried about that sorta thing have the reassurance that the only thing tencent knows about them is that they play valorant

Anti cheats need to be enigmatic for the purpose of making it harder for cheat makers to bypass it, so we can only go by the brief summary of what the company says it does, and anything we can find from external observation (wireshark and etc)

Most anti cheats have issues with VMs since cheats can then just run in the host machine to make it impossible to detect other than using less holistic detection techniques like basic memory scanning/integrity checking and stuff

I know little about programming and such but surely this isn't just your average anticheat if all this fuss is being made about it? Either way I think people shouldn't be so quick to look past it thinking that a video game company won't exploit your data for its own profits, especially since it's now a chinese owned business.

The same thing happened when random idiots that don't understand how apps work were complaining about the epic games store launcher and how it was spyware. They just latch onto a small and very oversimplified idea (in this case it's "it has K E R N E L L E V E L A C C E S S it will steal your data because of china!!") without understanding why it's needed. I don't agree that it should, but it's needed to be effective whatsoever.

I think the biggest worry I have is not the company, (which in itself has been seen to share data in the past and even lied to customers) but what if someone like a hacker manages to hijack that program, which turns on as soon as you turn your PC on AND has administrative power. They could easily take a lot of your info.

And even now in the Closed beta, there have been cheaters, so if cheaters are going to be present either way, I think they should scale it back to active only when you turn on the game like Fortnite and apex do, sure there are cheaters but there are already are right now. After all cheating in videogames is a multi-million dollar industry and you see people in Ferraris that just do cheats.

So maybe instead of focusing entirely on anti-cheat, they should hire more people to supervise the game and be quick to ban cheaters.

Although Riot has been quick to say that they will take the feedback and it is possible that they will scale down the anti-cheat, so we will have to see.

There isn't that much more data to siphon from your computer if an app has root privileges, since the data you'd likely want private is stored in regular userland. In other words, accessible by any regular app anyway. The main concern with root privileges is being able to modify core system stuff to render your OS useless, so it's more concerning with actual malware that wants to destroy your pc than an anti cheat.

Apparently valorant's anti cheat is piss easy to bypass atm, but it's speculated that they're just collecting usage data and waiting until launch to fully enable it (could be bullshit but idk)

exactly, riot really should have a big disclaimer that provides you with the information about it and the potential risks that could even happen on their behalf before you install the program. Much like with any nefarious sort of thing, experienced cheaters will always find their way around prevention systems and it seems like having a good team to review suspected hackers gameplay can be more effective at solving the problem. Whether they do something about it or not probably depends on how much backlash they get, even if they decide to try and exploit players they'd probably just get 'cancelled' for a week until they pump out a new dlc and some good press until everyone forgets about it though.

Where's the big bold disclaimer for any of these games, their anti cheats do the same thing?

https://www.easy.ac/en-us/partners/#games-list
https://www.battleye.com/#logos

Manual review takes too long and is frustrating for the players since they have to take mmr hits and sit through an entire half hour game with a guaranteed loss waiting at the end. There will simply be too much gameplay to look through - you literally cannot hire enough people to review the millions of games that are going to be played in valorant, so you'll have to leverage the players themselves to look through games like csgo's overwatch. Except hold on a sec, you can't really trust players that much so you have to limit who is allowed to look through cases. There goes like half the effectiveness. Then you can't even really be sure that people aren't just bullshitting anyway, so you need to have multiple people look through the same cases to make a judgement. Even after all that, you need to have some leniency because maybe it's just someone who's really good and looks like they're cheating but aren't

It's a good idea but the logistics make it much less effective - this is why you can still cheat a good handful of games within a certain time period in csgo without being punished (UNLESS the anti cheat picks it up)

 

[Deleted member 3818]

Yep, that's what happens when cheats also run in ring 0

See also: easy anti cheat, battleye. You're touting "RING 0" and "KERNEL ACCESS" as if this hasn't been done for literal years already

Anti cheats need to be enigmatic for the purpose of making it harder for cheat makers to bypass it, so we can only go by the brief summary of what the company says it does, and anything we can find from external observation (wireshark and etc)

Most anti cheats have issues with VMs since cheats can then just run in the host machine to make it impossible to detect other than using less holistic detection techniques like basic memory scanning/integrity checking and stuff

The same thing happened when random idiots that don't understand how apps work were complaining about the epic games store launcher and how it was spyware. They just latch onto a small and very oversimplified idea (in this case it's "it has K E R N E L L E V E L A C C E S S it will steal your data because of china!!") without understanding why it's needed. I don't agree that it should, but it's needed to be effective whatsoever.

There isn't that much more data to siphon from your computer if an app has root privileges, since the data you'd likely want private is stored in regular userland. In other words, accessible by any regular app anyway. The main concern with root privileges is being able to modify core system stuff to render your OS useless, so it's more concerning with actual malware that wants to destroy your pc than an anti cheat.

Apparently valorant's anti cheat is piss easy to bypass atm, but it's speculated that they're just collecting usage data and waiting until launch to fully enable it (could be bullshit but idk)

Where's the big bold disclaimer for any of these games, their anti cheats do the same thing?

https://www.easy.ac/en-us/partners/#games-list
https://www.battleye.com/#logos

Manual review takes too long and is frustrating for the players since they have to take mmr hits and sit through an entire half hour game with a guaranteed loss waiting at the end. There will simply be too much gameplay to look through - you literally cannot hire enough people to review the millions of games that are going to be played in valorant, so you'll have to leverage the players themselves to look through games like csgo's overwatch. Except hold on a sec, you can't really trust players that much so you have to limit who is allowed to look through cases. There goes like half the effectiveness. Then you can't even really be sure that people aren't just bullshitting anyway, so you need to have multiple people look through the same cases to make a judgement. Even after all that, you need to have some leniency because maybe it's just someone who's really good and looks like they're cheating but aren't

It's a good idea but the logistics make it much less effective - this is why you can still cheat a good handful of games within a certain time period in csgo without being punished (UNLESS the anti cheat picks it up)

yeah you make some good points and I didn’t realise this was a common thing with games. But it does sort of lead into the wider issue of if video games are gonna go the same route of mass data collection as social media companies did, especially since we’ve sort of just accepted it as normal now.