Serious Discussion: WW3RP 'back to basics'... sortof

[Deleted member 61]

the ww3rp community from 15-17 was literally the worst part of nebulous imaginable

sorry for the party rockin'

 

[mårten]

Early to mid 2000s aka 2000-2010 would be so fucking nice, cause i'd like some major balkan action type shit, like bosnian wars, cause they're really not that explored within the 'war' type of games. would be cool if some big ass balkan conflict broke out such as a civil war that'd do the story some good.

It's a bit of a touchy subject. A pretty recent war, a lot of the people who are from that area either grew up during it or their parents saw some fucked up shit. I have family from there who've told of how neighbours who had lived next to eachother for upwards of 15 years all of a sudden started killing eachother because they were Serbian and the people next-doors were Bosnian.
Now imagine a bunch of people roleplaying that conflict in gmod.

 

[Deleted member 3818]

It's a bit of a touchy subject. A pretty recent war, a lot of the people who are from that area either grew up during it or their parents saw some fucked up shit. I have family from there who've told of how neighbours who had lived next to eachother for upwards of 15 years all of a sudden started killing eachother because they were Serbian and the people next-doors were Bosnian.
Now imagine a bunch of people roleplaying that conflict in gmod.

I can kinda get this but nah, you can't have a roleplay game about war and then cater it around people who may be offended by war.

 

[Cuttsy]

It's a bit of a touchy subject. A pretty recent war, a lot of the people who are from that area either grew up during it or their parents saw some fucked up shit. I have family from there who've told of how neighbours who had lived next to eachother for upwards of 15 years all of a sudden started killing eachother because they were Serbian and the people next-doors were Bosnian.
Now imagine a bunch of people roleplaying that conflict in gmod.

And it would probably be a remove kebab meme fest anyway.

I don't understand why some people's posts are just put down to nostalgia and why that's such a bad thing. I would have thought most people play military rp with some amount of nostalgia from the old days. I get that nostalgia doesn't last but at the very least people who would come for nostalgic times have a good chance of staying if the server proves to be a success in terms of gameplay and building a reputation in the opening months.

 

[Deleted member 1381]

And it would probably be a remove kebab meme fest anyway.

I don't understand why some people's posts are just put down to nostalgia and why that's such a bad thing. I would have thought most people play military rp with some amount of nostalgia from the old days. I get that nostalgia doesn't last but at the very least people who would come for nostalgic times have a good chance of staying if the server proves to be a success in terms of gameplay and building a reputation in the opening months.

nostalgia makes you look at everything through rose tinted glasses, and to be blunt it wouldn't make a difference anyway since its less to do with lore and more to do with management. in my opinion the people pushing for the modern lore don't even realise it themselves

 

[Cuttsy]

nostalgia makes you look at everything through rose tinted glasses, and to be blunt it wouldn't make a difference anyway since its less to do with lore and more to do with management. in my opinion the people pushing for the modern lore don't even realise it themselves

In any case I think it's difficult ignoring people who agree and are saying similar stuff to @Codfather. A lot of these didn't play Stasiland and they have fair enough reasons for not doing so. I agree that it isn't mainly lore they are concerned about but I don't think it's management either, whatever you mean specifically by that. I think most of them are more concerned about factions and equipment but these have been discussed a lot.

Just think it's worth considering how to get WW3RP veterans who avoided Stasiland but are keen this time round to give it a try this time

 

[Deleted member 1381]

In any case I think it's difficult ignoring people who agree and are saying similar stuff to @Codfather. A lot of these didn't play Stasiland and they have fair enough reasons for not doing so. I agree that it isn't mainly lore they are concerned about but I don't think it's management either, whatever you mean specifically by that. I think most of them are more concerned about factions and equipment but these have been discussed a lot.

Just think it's worth considering how to get WW3RP veterans who avoided Stasiland but are keen this time round to give it a try this time

The difference between factions/equipment is nill, the only thing that would change are some weapon and vehicle reskins. It's what I don't understand, you'd be scrapping already well-developed content that could be launched in days/weeks to create something entirely new for a reason that isn't worth it. I don't think many people explicitly said they're not playing Stasiland, rather they tried it and it wasn't their cup of tea because of a list of reasons longer than my arm. I think Roosebud with all his years as a server director noticed that which is why this new approach is being proposed to try and cater to everyone - the roleplay crowd and the s2k crowd. Old WW3 was s2k-heavy, Stasiland was rp-heavy, this is trying to find a decent balance. I loved the roleplay in Stasiland but I know it could never be replicated in a 'pure' take on old WW3. I also enjoyed using the vehicles/equipment, but using them in Stasiland was scarce. I think this version would work great as it offers the best of both worlds.

 

[Deleted member 1381]

when driving a tank wear brown trousers @Colonel Sanders

 

[Codfather]

the ww3rp community from 15-17 was literally the worst part of nebulous imaginable

Neb didn’t start till 2016, 2015 was fine imo, especially for ww3, 2014/15 would be a correction to my statement, 17 was okay.

I just don’t think the playerbase is there for the older style fac v fac with lumps of seriousness

Honestly speaking, I feel like most of this is down to either nostalgia, a closed perspective because people played in groups strictly comprised of their friends or both.

Looking back in the archives, screenshots, less-than-perfect experiences people share etc, most issues we faced during the ‘later’ stages of WW3RP were also very much present back then, just not as freshly embedded in memory.

you can look back on the archives and try and relate it to the 2016 experience you had when you joined as kenshin miyamoto but you will never truly know how ww3rp was when it first started under @Powley @Toasty @Bork and @AlexD

I’m not trying to insult you or say you have no idea about the game mode because obviously you do, all I’m saying is that to assume you understand the logistics of the entirety of 2014 and 2015’s content of rp and gameplay from some archived meme thread you’re completely wrong. Nostalgia lens aside I’ve had enough time to reconcile my true beliefs and compare them, to continuously put multiple people’s accounts down to nostalgia lens is to imply the majority of us are delusional.

so many people commenting that it had a plethora of issues are people that either played HL2 back then or didn’t even play back then at all and only saw in through the meme thread which was popping off. I’m not saying it didn’t have any problems, to say that it would be considered delusional. All I’m stating is that those that did not like the game mode tend to prefer the negatives they saw in the game mode and those that did of course prefer the positive. You can have your opinion of the game mode but you cannot deny the success it had and the amount of new roleplayers it created.

the meme thread was out of hand and always was, IC mixed into OOC but that was always managed to be resolved one way or another.

just wish people would stop bashing the older versions of it when it was like 7 fucking years ago and those people criticising it are seen to have a much more vivid memory of it compared to those that actually played it.

The main thing I always say about world war three RP is that I saw continuously throughout the years was the way it taught newer gmod players or normally less serious players text based RP. It was incredibly healthy for the community. Seeing people come in that had never written a /me before to in a month writing lengths of passiveRP and even wanting to create events for people with PET was amazing, giving life to RP in a (at the time) declining time for RP was cool.

 

['77 East]

I always feel like WW3:RP 2014-2016/2017 managed to have the perfect playerbase at the perfect time that could transition from S2K into RP seamlessly and enjoy both aspects the server had to offer.

just wish people would stop bashing the older versions of it when it was like 7 fucking years ago and those people criticising it are seen to have a much more vivid memory of it compared to those that actually played it.

you make a critical mistake lumping the 2016/17 iteration in with your nostalgia-driven notion of 2015

are you right or wrong about 2015? I don't know, but to tar the 2016/2017 years with the same brush is downright ridiculous given all the behind-the-scenes abuse and exploit shit that poisoned that timeframe.

 

[Codfather]

you make a critical mistake lumping the 2016/17 iteration in with your nostalgia-driven notion of 2015

are you right or wrong about 2015? I don't know, but to tar the 2016/2017 years with the same brush is downright ridiculous given all the behind-the-scenes abuse and exploit shit that poisoned that timeframe.

Corrected myself in the post if you read, avoided 2016. 2017 recovered ever so slightly for a bit, but soon fell bad
[doublepost=1613373165][/doublepost]I also meant from 2014-2016/17 ended around those dates, again it was a long time ago. But 2014 and 2015 were definitely the best years for it.

 

[Hudson]

I think motivation and quality are 2 things we shouldn't overlook.

There's been several threads over the years where we discussed ways to make WW3RP great again, and there's been faction reforms and general changes, but ultimately I think the quality mainly comes from the people involved. When certain people left the scene, we lost the skills they had. I'm not saying they were all perfect, but there were things they were good at.

For example we had a great drill instructor character at one point, but when they left we quickly had a critical problem where recruits were joining but not being trained. We eventually had a system where training recruits would earn you requisition, and that may have helped motivate people to train recruits, but it was no guarantee that we could restore the quality of training that the drill instructor had been doing it with.

If anything, the people now doing the training were deathmatchers in comparison - only really interested in earning the requisition to spend on deadlier guns. There's lots of examples like that which show the roleplay structure of WW3RP in a fragile light.

LemonPunch had started WW3RP with a good level of roleplay immersion, probably thanks to the people involved at the time putting in effort and being strict. There were a variety of reasons behind some of them leaving, but from what I'd heard it wasn't down to the maps, guns, or lore - yet I feel like the gap that was missing without them and their skills were more important than the details of what maps looks nice; which guns are cool; and the perfect lore.

So rather than having 30 pages of discussion about details that the staff might not even have motivation to change at this point in time, I think we'd be better off expressing enough support to even get the server running - and aim to bring it back to a point of quality we had in those earlier days.

Expressing support that we can run one of the best roleplay servers again, where people apply to make drill instructor characters, where we put a moment of effort into the culture to ensure that people are actually having fun together, where skilled people not only want to stick around - but want to keep contributing.

 

[Roosebud]

At the end of the day it all comes down to this:

-We’ve got a working schema
-I’ve got a relatively good amount of time to set things up / manage it for the next couple of months
-We’ve established the playstyle that people prefer, regardless of lore

There’s a couple of things that still need to be worked out, but that’s all sidebusiness to take care of when/if there’s an official green light.

 

[Chromesthesia_]

steam greenlight ww3rp

 

[Raz0r]

After years gone, my time has come.

 

[Clokr]

I've always said that so long as faction management keeps an eye on their playerbase, and by this, I mean, sending them out and watching how they interact with their squad and with civilians in observer. The officers and management need to be more or less on the same page in order to crackdown on the more important in-character rules.

If you keep an eye on who is actively contributing by roleplaying with their squadmates and civilians, you promote them and hope that people see that they were promoted for positively contributing to the active roleplay on the server, they could be too if they acted in a similar manner.

This can quickly go to waste if you simply look at the number of POWs, successful field reports and confirmed kills. I personally, would like to see the return of mandatory field reports, unless authorized by a CO in emergency situations.

From what I've seen in terms of the complete vehicle, artillery, weapons base, etc. is that we had so many (SO MANY) fucking amazing assets that we never got to fully use because we were never in a real 'big numbers' faction brawl that warranted it. I would've fucking loved to see the flamethrower used outside of the event.

The script/code itself is stellar by all GMOD standards in terms of the amount of things to be crafted, etc. The fact that the community has never witnessed the 'full' features of Stasiland was always sad to me.

Another massive question is: will @char be able to lead Soviets or will he have had to move on to greener pastures in real life? :(

Honestly prolly a bit late but I just now saw this and just had to put in my two cents about how well you hit the nail on the head with this

The problems I saw during my time in both Sov and NATO and NJSOC and Spetsnaz was that officers didn’t really interact with their subordinates and NCOs. Not only is this a big problem when looking at it from a RL standpoint, but it’s also god awful like you said.

You’re supposed to be an officer for a reason, you’re supposed to be recognized as a great role player who grasps the ideas and lore as if the were a real person, and you’re also talented in many different fields.

You can be all of that and still neglect THE single most important thing. Getting to know your men like they were your own of kin. Sitting down with them at the canteen not as an officer with his bastard children. But as a human, forming that connection so your men go, “wow... he actually understands me. He’s actually a good officer.”

NATO had the problem where I rarely saw any officers interacting with their men and most of the time spent circle jerking others off in the officer circle. NJSOC was a meme that literally fucked half their own operators and thought everyone else was brain dead. I tried to change that when I was lead for it but I never got to see it come to light unfortunately.

Sovs. While great. Was just a fucking meme faction, we can’t deny that. Half of the people just cared about the S2K and not all the amazing RP potential it had. And we know who the pack mules were who were carrying the whole fucking faction, like char. And Spetsnaz just was worse imo. A lot of the time it was still just S2K focused, and I could be wrong it’s been so long now I’m sorta starting to forget.

If you’re given the rank of an officer. And you’re given better pay, position, and a voice. USE THAT FUCKING VOICE! Speak to your men, speak to them like a human, get to know them and what your subordinates need to thrive instead of just waving your dick around in the air. Interact, watch, gather, learn, and watch the faction thrive.

thanks for coming to my ted talk I’ll be here all day for questions

 

[Cuttsy]

Honestly prolly a bit late but I just now saw this and just had to put in my two cents about how well you hit the nail on the head with this

The problems I saw during my time in both Sov and NATO and NJSOC and Spetsnaz was that officers didn’t really interact with their subordinates and NCOs. Not only is this a big problem when looking at it from a RL standpoint, but it’s also god awful like you said.

You’re supposed to be an officer for a reason, you’re supposed to be recognized as a great role player who grasps the ideas and lore as if the were a real person, and you’re also talented in many different fields.

You can be all of that and still neglect THE single most important thing. Getting to know your men like they were your own of kin. Sitting down with them at the canteen not as an officer with his bastard children. But as a human, forming that connection so your men go, “wow... he actually understands me. He’s actually a good officer.”

NATO had the problem where I rarely saw any officers interacting with their men and most of the time spent circle jerking others off in the officer circle. NJSOC was a meme that literally fucked half their own operators and thought everyone else was brain dead. I tried to change that when I was lead for it but I never got to see it come to light unfortunately.

Sovs. While great. Was just a fucking meme faction, we can’t deny that. Half of the people just cared about the S2K and not all the amazing RP potential it had. And we know who the pack mules were who were carrying the whole fucking faction, like char. And Spetsnaz just was worse imo. A lot of the time it was still just S2K focused, and I could be wrong it’s been so long now I’m sorta starting to forget.

If you’re given the rank of an officer. And you’re given better pay, position, and a voice. USE THAT FUCKING VOICE! Speak to your men, speak to them like a human, get to know them and what your subordinates need to thrive instead of just waving your dick around in the air. Interact, watch, gather, learn, and watch the faction thrive.

thanks for coming to my ted talk I’ll be here all day for questions

I only saw it earlier today as well but it is a very important point. I think there were some COs worth admiring from the old iterations. When I played, two that spring to mind are Wulfeh/@Rookie and @Jafro. One thing Stasiland massively improved on was the quality of its COs overall though and hopefully that can be continued if this is given the greenlight. You noticed in a lot of people the power trip from promotions in the old days, I think most people experienced this one way or another. A lot of Spc. seemed to have a chip on their shoulder and JNCOs but it was the individual that determined whether they were going to be a good NCO+ or not. I don't think application based promotions alone would be the solution to promotion issues but encouraging COs to focus on their mindset when giving out promotions would be ideal. Most COs from Stasiland knew who wanted more responsibility and who were suitable to deal with it, not dishing out promos just to make the TS squad happy or because they have an erp pact with the receiver (promotion receiver that is).

I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms from WW3RP now though. This is a solid concept and an even better compromise between the extremities of past iterations and Stasiland.

 

[Deleted member 61]

Honestly prolly a bit late but I just now saw this and just had to put in my two cents about how well you hit the nail on the head with this

The problems I saw during my time in both Sov and NATO and NJSOC and Spetsnaz was that officers didn’t really interact with their subordinates and NCOs. Not only is this a big problem when looking at it from a RL standpoint, but it’s also god awful like you said.

You’re supposed to be an officer for a reason, you’re supposed to be recognized as a great role player who grasps the ideas and lore as if the were a real person, and you’re also talented in many different fields.

You can be all of that and still neglect THE single most important thing. Getting to know your men like they were your own of kin. Sitting down with them at the canteen not as an officer with his bastard children. But as a human, forming that connection so your men go, “wow... he actually understands me. He’s actually a good officer.”

NATO had the problem where I rarely saw any officers interacting with their men and most of the time spent circle jerking others off in the officer circle. NJSOC was a meme that literally fucked half their own operators and thought everyone else was brain dead. I tried to change that when I was lead for it but I never got to see it come to light unfortunately.

Sovs. While great. Was just a fucking meme faction, we can’t deny that. Half of the people just cared about the S2K and not all the amazing RP potential it had. And we know who the pack mules were who were carrying the whole fucking faction, like char. And Spetsnaz just was worse imo. A lot of the time it was still just S2K focused, and I could be wrong it’s been so long now I’m sorta starting to forget.

If you’re given the rank of an officer. And you’re given better pay, position, and a voice. USE THAT FUCKING VOICE! Speak to your men, speak to them like a human, get to know them and what your subordinates need to thrive instead of just waving your dick around in the air. Interact, watch, gather, learn, and watch the faction thrive.

thanks for coming to my ted talk I’ll be here all day for questions

I definitely agree with you. COs should talk a lot, boost moral, give the word of the day, push and encourage troops. There is also an issue of too much officer presence, where it feels like your CO is always there on the field with you. That's also not great. COs should talk enough to the point where almost all the enlisted and NCOs will feel their death.

It feels as if some people forget their part as even JNCOs, is to forward solid performance and character seen that will likely be overlooked within the enlisted. Likewise, some corporals and JNCOs were morons who suped up their VDVs with toolguns and space programmed all over the map which ended up with a whole detachment becoming somewhat full of memers who fucked around whenever they could get away with it... but those are also the memories we cherish and remembers, so its not like I wish it never happened.

As always with WW3RP, its when people take things too far that spoils it.

Speaking of taking things too far, perhaps what shaped my experience the most was faction leadership consisting of Kirshbia leading UCTF, Punchpacket leading MP, Yuki Hinata leading medical, Stephanov leading the entire Coalition, and Bath Salts Addict leading engineering, and @Hudson leading infantry. They took the quality too damn far and ruined it by setting high standards for the future.

What I've realized is that these were all pretty fan-fucking-tastic serious roleplayers who people actually respected, and therefore, I tried to be better than I was at the same when I was what? 15, 16? Has it really been ten or so years?

Every single one of these lieutenants had my respect and that's why I would do my field reports, salute them and go out of my way to try and save them if shit hit the fan. I think it was this era that was sort of responsible for making people like @Mendel and I. And who could forget Toasty?

aaah, nostalgia trip, fu-

 

[Clokr]

I only saw it earlier today as well but it is a very important point. I think there were some COs worth admiring from the old iterations. When I played, two that spring to mind are Wulfeh/@Rookie and @Jafro. One thing Stasiland massively improved on was the quality of its COs overall though and hopefully that can be continued if this is given the greenlight. You noticed in a lot of people the power trip from promotions in the old days, I think most people experienced this one way or another. A lot of Spc. seemed to have a chip on their shoulder and JNCOs but it was the individual that determined whether they were going to be a good NCO+ or not. I don't think application based promotions only would be the solution to the promotion issues but encouraging COs to focus on their mindset when giving out promotions. Most COs from Stasiland knew who wanted more responsibility and who were suitable to deal with it, not dishing out promos just to make the TS squad happy or because they have an erp pact with the receiver (promotion receiver that is).

I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms from WW3RP now though. This is a solid concept and an even better compromise between the extremities of past iterations and Stasiland.

I’ve seen my share of very respectable COs. But sadly I wasn’t able to experience the older LP days since I had no idea it existed then.

A couple that spring to mind for myself are char, generic, and whiskers. And still to this day I’m slightly afraid of talking to them OOCly because they legit evoked that much respect and fear out of me for how good they were at their jobs.

But for ranks. Ignoring the sort of power trip they shown and the honestly near sad amount of promotions given to those who frankly didn’t deserve them. I always and still do see the ranks as sort of like this

junior enlisted and enlisted troops are those who can RP. Anywhere from decent RPers who just joined and haven’t gotten far yet. Or those who are simply on the server every now and again to RP and have fun in their odd S2K patrol.

senior enlisted and JNCOs are those who show a bit of shine and promise. People who may be interested in becoming a NCO but need more time to be watched and see if they have that material

NCOs are the role players who are actually pretty good at RP and have smarts and talents. Be it in a single field or show true interest in the faction and lore and server as a whole

SNCOs are the more old dogs. They’ve shown themselves to be talented in multiple fields, smart, and great RPers. And likely the reasons they aren’t COs is simply they don’t want to have that responsibility and enjoy where they are, or if the CO roster is simply already full. This is where I was I suppose. I just didn’t want to go any further plus there was no room.

COs are the brains AND brawn. They should know what they’re doing. And most of the time they do know. They’re very smart and talented in many different fields to use their position to its best

Atleast though... that’s how it should’ve been. But along the way we sorta shit the bed and rolled around in the sheets and made a mess we can’t clean up.

The right people need to be chosen for the right jobs. Instead of just being promoted because their femchar has a model ref pic and their tits are bigger then their head

 

[Black Rain (1989)]

Let it die.