Suggestion Increase Civil Protection sprint speed

[Rabid]

Trying to balance two sides with manual supply lines has failed in literally every combat heavy event Neb has ever had, bar none. I genuinely cannot name one event which used it that wasn't a short-term Dallas one where it didn't become a massive issue that crippled combat entirely and turned into constant forum complaints.

In Heavy Snow it was one of the main reasons the entire point of the event fell apart, and there's more combat daily right now than I think there was across that entire event.

There's RP to be had when you can set rebels objectives and reward them in gear for completing them. There's never been roleplay when both sides are handicapped and needing their supplies constantly force-fed to them (which breaks the entire point) and end up hunkering away from eachother because nobody has anything to fight with.

 

[Deleted member 4609]

I don’t rly understand the whole ‘BUT COPS HAVE VENDORS’, yes this was 100% an advantage in iterations past us now, but when I’m constantly seeing screenshots of rebs with 20 MP7s in their lockers or groups literally having to throw out high tier guns because they’ve got no room left in storage it feels like a silly point to make, maybe that’s just a rich few boasting but I’ve also got access to the weapon spawn logs, I know rebels are overflowing with event staff and beyond giving guns at every opportunity.

I think it’s actually quite even lol, more than it has been in any other point in the server’s history

 

[Simman102]

I don’t rly understand the whole ‘BUT COPS HAVE VENDORS’

A lot of what's said in this thread seems to be generic smokescreen in a panicked response to the possibility of anything Combine-related being buffed.
@TedHatty wrote a response that's nearly 5x as long as the original suggestion and about 1/3rd of it talks about OTA despite it being entirely unrelated (and still agreeing with the fact that Civil Protection is in a rough spot).

I hardly have anything to say in response to more and more complaints about OTA sniper or vendors when all I'm asking for is for the faction to run faster (which could already be achieved in-game if anybody's feeling dedicated enough to grind for literal hours).

 

['77 East]

what's with the weapon talk

yes, insurgents have big guns. big fucking woop. cops have the same guns but either won't use them out of some belief that it ruins their experience or do use them but not regularly.

all this '''buff''' does is encourage more bland MP7 running-and-gunning, as if chowing down on rations constantly didn't achieve the same thing. I really fail to see how it's going to do anything except further encourage cheesy corner peaking & dumping another fifty MP7's into the rebel economy (to the cry of "the rebels have more weapons!!!" and demands for synths)

 

[Rabid]

encourage more bland MP7 running-and-gunning

Was that not - quite literally - the point of allowing people to shoot while sprinting though?

 

[Flop]

Gentlemen, GENTLEMEN, all of this is just giving cops a buff to their sprint, how did we get to these? Call me "x" but I don't think giving cops a a increase in sprint will break all engagements suddenly unless there is some variable I am missing, this suggestion is not asking for any-thing else.

 

[MaXenzie]

honestly i'd prefer a movement speed reduction to every faction to disincentivize the run & gunning,
removal of third person to stop corner peeking
and remove sprinting while firing to stop the tried and true "sprint into face while magdumping for guaranteed accuracy" tactics

 

[Tinbe]

Gentlemen, GENTLEMEN, all of this is just giving cops a buff to their sprint, how did we get to these?

Because the motivation for the suggestion provokes a discussion of its own. Simple as.
"We need to do X because of Y." "No, Y is actually..." and from there on, it spiraled onward for several pages.

 

[Andrew]

too long im not reading all of that
just make em like 3-5% faster so they can play the catch-up game

 

[Flop]

Because the motivation for the suggestion provokes a discussion of its own. Simple as.
"We need to do X because of Y." "No, Y is actually..." and from there on, it spiraled onward for several pages.

Fair enough, in my opinion this is not the thread where it warrants it

 

[Tinbe]

Fair enough, in my opinion this is not the thread where it warrants it

Same, I feel like a lot of this is a result of pent-up problems that could've been addressed through discussion in the feedback thread without the constraints of a suggestion thread.

 

[TedHatty]

@TedHatty wrote a response that's nearly 5x as long as the original suggestion and about 1/3rd of it talks about OTA despite it being entirely unrelated

Simply put and without any dumbass metaphors, as a rebel I am not afraid of going against Civil Protection, but when OTA shows up I start shitting myself. And if I had to pair it up with fast-moving CPs, then I might aswell just lock myself in my closet and cry.

My entire post is an analysis to try and explain whether your suggestion would be fair or not, and if it was going to cause complaints on the rebel side.

As I tried to explain, your issue is not as simple as "just make cops faster? im not asking for much!", because every change has and will have consequences which I tried to go over my previous post. I would've liked to get your opinion of what I said.

In addition I tried to put an end to the "unbalanced fights argument" that people were having in the middle of this thread.

Now, as you say here:

1/3rd of it talks about OTA despite it being entirely unrelated

My point is that it's wrong to think that it is unrelated. You are thinking of buffing CPs so that they'd stand more of a chance against rebels.
But then try and think of a situation like this:

if I had to pair it up with fast-moving CPs, then I might aswell just lock myself in my closet and cry.

...then people on the rebel side would start complaining. See now why I think including OTA is necessary? Hardly ever do issues require a simple solution.

(and still agreeing with the fact that Civil Protection is in a rough spot).

Please, keep in mind that whilst I said that I do agree that Civil Protection has it bad, I still provided a reason as to why maybe it's meant to be that way. I agree with you that Civil Protection is weak against rebels, but I did not agree with your specific suggestion. There are other things that can be done... but is it really going to help or is it gonna' create more complaints? That's what I'm trying to make clear.

I hardly have anything to say in response to more and more complaints about OTA sniper or vendors

I don’t rly understand the whole ‘BUT COPS HAVE VENDORS’

Fully agree! Combine has vendors and rebels have a shitton of weapons. Everybody has a gun, what's there to complain about?

(which could already be achieved in-game if anybody's feeling dedicated enough to grind for literal hours).

Then I ask, why not gradually get it in-game like everybody else? That way nobody would complain, you have gained it through playing and training your character. Let people seethe, but they won't be able to complain about it.

 

[Subeh]

I don’t rly understand the whole ‘BUT COPS HAVE VENDORS’, yes this was 100% an advantage in iterations past us now, but when I’m constantly seeing screenshots of rebs with 20 MP7s in their lockers or groups literally having to throw out high tier guns because they’ve got no room left in storage it feels like a silly point to make, maybe that’s just a rich few boasting but I’ve also got access to the weapon spawn logs, I know rebels are overflowing with event staff and beyond giving guns at every opportunity.

I think it’s actually quite even lol, more than it has been in any other point in the server’s history

theres a major difference

no matter how fuckin hog wild cops/ota go, theyll never run out, never. theres no risk. theres safety in knowing that no matter if they fuck up and die, they WILL have something to fall back on; and this has been peddled as a mentality time and time again on c24 given they've virtually never been 'punished' no matter how many fkin times they rush and die (which directly insults the original purpose of the map but thats a whole other topic)

rebels may have a lot, but there's been several instances in recent times where we've run out of shit and it's dictated how we play. orsted/due north in particular has gotten to the point of having no guns and barely any ammo several times over; if you're like the armbands and you hoard like a motherfucker then yes, i can understand this argument, but the majority of groups arent like that

the fact that we can - often quicker than we realise - run out of things in of itself changes our mentality and the way that cops/ota rushrushrushrush as if their shit doesnt matter is a very very clear sign of just how comfortable they are with their infinite vendors

having a fuckload in storage =/= infinite. they're worlds apart. rebels have to think, even if for a second, that they may need that gear for another day; cops/ota don't and it very clearly shows in combat

the existence of vendors themselves is the problem. the other thing is, too, that if staff know both sides will - to some extent - rely on them for more gear, then that incentivises staff to keep a tighter leash on either side being needlessly reckless because they know that, at some point, theyre gonna have to take time out of their day to give them the opportunity to get more; when a side or both has a vendor, every single staff member can collectively breathe and go "fuck.. ok. cool. they can just do whatever they want. i dont need to pay attention."

and thats not even touching on the fact that vendors are just cheap, easy, lazy and completely anti-rp; i tried to push this back on apoc, saying that every second a vendor was around rp opportunity is being wasted.

when both sides are having to deal with limited non-vendor stocks, they have to either;

1) trade
2) rely on their overlord and interact with them
3) scavenge
4) do events
5) battle it out with the other side

etc if they want to get more. with a vendor, you annihilate the potential for all of that.

vendors are utter ass and theres no reason for either side to have them, the fact we have them at all is just disappointingly lazy to me

 

[Pyromaniac]

theres a major difference

no matter how fuckin hog wild cops/ota go, theyll never run out, never. theres no risk. theres safety in knowing that no matter if they fuck up and die, they WILL have something to fall back on; and this has been peddled as a mentality time and time again on c24 given they've virtually never been 'punished' no matter how many fkin times they rush and die (which directly insults the original purpose of the map but thats a whole other topic)

rebels may have a lot, but there's been several instances in recent times where we've run out of shit and it's dictated how we play. orsted/due north in particular has gotten to the point of having no guns and barely any ammo several times over; if you're like the armbands and you hoard like a motherfucker then yes, i can understand this argument, but the majority of groups arent like that

the fact that we can - often quicker than we realise - run out of things in of itself changes our mentality and the way that cops/ota rushrushrushrush as if their shit doesnt matter is a very very clear sign of just how comfortable they are with their infinite vendors

having a fuckload in storage =/= infinite. they're worlds apart. rebels have to think, even if for a second, that they may need that gear for another day; cops/ota don't and it very clearly shows in combat

the existence of vendors themselves is the problem

and thats not even touching on the fact that vendors are just cheap, easy, lazy and completely anti-rp; i tried to push this back on apoc, saying that every second a vendor was around rp opportunity is being wasted.

when both sides are having to deal with limited non-vendor stocks, they have to either;

1) trade
2) rely on their overlord and interact with them
3) scavenge
4) do events
5) battle it out with the other side

etc if they want to get more. with a vendor, you annihilate the potential for all of that.

vendors are utter ass and theres no reason for either side to have them, the fact we have them at all is just disappointingly lazy to me

Give rebels a vendor with scrap-smgs/pipe pistols at worst (and appropriate ammo), that way you always have something to fall back on (even if it might not be as good tho idk damage values on the aforementioned). Considering the current situation I'd believe it to make sense.
Sure, the weapons might be worse. The Rebellion as a whole though will have a higher-certainty/usability of acquiring/acquired higher-tier weapons where-as the combine might start/have a more sustainable middleground (CP-wise) where-as they arent able to grow to high tier (as fast)

 

[Subeh]

Give rebels a vendor with scrap-smgs/pipe pistols at worst (and appropriate ammo), that way you always have something to fall back on (even if it might not be as good tho idk damage values on the aforementioned). Considering the current situation I'd believe it to make sense.

bro read the fkin post

nobody should have vendors, giving the other side a vendor is not the solution

 

[RedMan]

Combine has vendors

Certain items within said vendors are limited in quantity. It would be nice if the capacity of said items was increased.

 

[Pyromaniac]

bro read the fkin post

nobody should have vendors, giving the other side a vendor is not the solution

You're free to tell me no side should, I disagree. I merely commented on the argued inbalance and per-response provide my solution to it. You're free to disagree with me.

 

[Subeh]

You're free to tell me no side should, I disagree. I merely commented on the argued inbalance and per-response provide my solution to it. You're free to disagree with me.

having vendors at all makes this shit more like the unironic no-rp combine v rebel servers gmod has, not an rp server

its startin to feel like people are forgetting we're an rp server not a shoot-em-up server

it makes me sincerely worry about the sort of impression it leaves on new players especially

 

[Pyromaniac]

having vendors at all makes this shit more like the unironic no-rp combine v rebel servers gmod has, not an rp server

its startin to feel like people are forgetting we're an rp server not a shoot-em-up server

it makes me sincerely worry about the sort of impression it leaves on new players especially

If you have trouble generating RP because you dont have to worry about being completely out of weapons, then maybe the issue doesn't lie with the guns. I've had fun and good roleplay scenarios come out of after-combat talk and inbetween combat talk.

A lack of weapons/difficulty to attain them should be a map modifier, not a consistent thing.

 

[Subeh]

If you have trouble generating RP because you dont have to worry about being completely out of weapons,

you are completely missing my point;

and thats not even touching on the fact that vendors are just cheap, easy, lazy and completely anti-rp; i tried to push this back on apoc, saying that every second a vendor was around rp opportunity is being wasted.

when both sides are having to deal with limited non-vendor stocks, they have to either;

1) trade
2) rely on their overlord and interact with them
3) scavenge
4) do events
5) battle it out with the other side

etc if they want to get more. with a vendor, you annihilate the potential for all of that.

the existence of vendors in of themselves is annihilating the potential for a fuckton of rp by itself

if anything's destroying rp for the rebels it's the fact that there's so much fucking daily s2k that they cant just sit there and rp at all. i know of 3 resistance leaders that have decided to quit until next map purely because the constant s2k is making shit unfathomably dry and unfun for them