Serious On Communism.

[Kerim]

I am a communist and a slav myself, I never said communist countries did anything good, Im of an opinion that they CAN do some good, so please stop pulling words from your ass. Plus, there is nothing technological that my country lacks if you look at its size. Not like we need any of those 500 dollar wifi connected google juicers that do nothing but literally push on the bag which a man can do himself even faster. Apart from that it simply just collects tour information.
[doublepost=1499947466][/doublepost]Nice, rate my post dumb so I can be sure you got no idea what were all talking about here

no wonder slovakia is in the shitter lmao

 

[Mancom37]

God damn champagne socialists I swear

 

[Ethiopian Security]

Freedom... Don't you live in the US, you know, a DEMOCRATIC NATION? I admit you're entitled to an opinion of course, but you sound like a 12 year old who keeps bitching on YouTube about how communism can immediately replace all forms of democratic government because someone stole your cake.

USA is a democratic republic you nerd.

 

[Mancom37]

USA is a democratic republic you nerd.

Constitutional republic

 

[Deleted member 374]

how about this: all systems are flawed to some degree because people are unpredictable and don't all share the same mindsets.

 

[Nömad <3]

how about this: all systems are flawed to some degree because people are unpredictable and don't all share the same mindsets.

How about we all fuck off to sealand and begin working on Andrew Ryan's Rapture?

 

[Mancom37]

How about we all fuck off to sealand and begin working on Andrew Ryan's Rapture?

Why not go full ancap

 

[Deadpool]

Ouch man, it hurts when we're compared to Belarus.

But yeah, during the soviet times, it wasn't all that fun.

Edit unless you're referring to us now. At least we have upgraded our infrastructure to the EU standard, we aren't a shithole lol.

but does it compare to a western country like germany, france, spain, uk, or northern like denmark, norway, finland? eastern europe is ages behind those countries

 

[TarzanTheJungler]

but does it compare to a western country like germany, france, spain, uk, or northern like denmark, norway, finland? eastern europe is ages behind those countries

Yeah, but don't you think it's stretch to call the countries shit considering their renovations since joining EU(Not speaking of countries like Serbia where the year is still 1990 by what it looks like)?

 

[ruben slikk]

Plus, there is nothing technological that my country lacks

because your country got dragged up by subsidies from the european union, and even with all those you're nowhere near the same level as the western countries who thrived without communism?

i honestly don't understand how you can support communism after what it has done to your country

 

[Black Rain (1989)]

communism / socialism is a road to serfdom

 

[Deleted member 374]

Why not go full ancap

power vacuumism

 

[Mancom37]

power vacuumism

I was memeing lad

 

[Nömad <3]

communism / socialism is a road to serfdom

I will never work for you or your dog whitelist char >:(

 

[Deleted member 374]

I was memeing lad

i know

 

[GenericPlayer]

I'm seeing a lot of somewhat well founded arguments against the USSR and the reasons for its failure, and by extension, the failure of Leninism.

What I'm not seeing is the arguments against the core ideas of historical materialism and workers control of the means of production.

If anything, Socialism/Communism/Marxism cannot work as intended with a strong centralised state.

But, what about militant trade unions working in cooperation to form a decentralised representative government?

 

[bird]

There are a lot of criticisms that could be leveled at communism, but the most fundamental one is probably the issue of its complete lack of incentives. Communism works fine in theory, but only when the theory conveniently ignores the immutable aspects of human nature; people are more productive when they can get ahead, and when they can't better their circumstances relative to everyone else's, they won't be as productive. This is likely the most glaring reason Russia fell behind the west in the 70's. Their economy grew rapidly when they were just moving country people into cities and building factories, but when they ran out of capacity the lack of innovation saw them fall steadily behind the capitalist countries. They were lousy at innovating and couldn't increase their technological level, which is the biggest factor of economic growth.

TL;DR Countries attempting to create classless societies fail because you can't restrain humanity's natural tendency towards specialization/stratification.

 

[GenericPlayer]

immutable aspects of human nature

The priorities and nature of humans is based on their material conditions. Without the need to be greedy, someone will be less likely to act as such.

As for incentive, the ability to produce commodities and reap the profits with no one taking surplus value from said products would increase the wealth of the worker. That'd be an incentive no?

 

[bird]

As for incentive, the ability to produce commodities and reap the profits with no one taking surplus value from said products would increase the wealth of the worker. That'd be an incentive no?

You're absolutely correct that would be an incentive, however this only further proves my point of stratification. What you're describing isn't communism if one worker is even marginally more wealthy than another simply for participating in the production of a 'commodity.' Unless you're speaking on the topic of the general worker populace growing wealthier through a communalized system and consequently being incentivized, which still doesn't work around the topic of curbed technological development.
You either innovate or you remain the same as every other worker. (You are communal or innovative).

The priorities and nature of humans is based on their material conditions. Without the need to be greedy, someone will be less likely to act as such.

This is inherently not provable and all-in-all unlikely. There is no foundation for this claim.

 

[GenericPlayer]

This is inherently not provable and all-in-all unlikely. There is no foundation for this claim.

The claim that human nature is determined by material conditions? The industrial revolution didn't come about by chance. It came about because of the need of automation for growing populations and trade routes.

The beginning and end of every socioeconomic system has come about this way. And in a post-scarcity society, I can assure you people won't feel the need to be greedy as there is no need to hoard.

What you're describing isn't communism if one worker is even marginally more wealthy than another simply for participating in the production of a 'commodity.'

Pierre Joseph Proudhon and Josip Broz Tito are two names that come to mind when allowing the growth of wealth for workers in such a system (Market Socialism and Mutualism respectfully).

Though if we don't take wealth at face value and instead use it to refer to land, commodities and etcetera then it is still communism (So long as the workers still control their means of production). Again, communism isn't the belief in a completely equal society (That'd just be stupid).