OUR BENEFACTORS - FEEDBACK

[Eviction Notice]

imo that should never have been allowed, purely on an OOC level

I'd like to quickly add to this that no IC action was taken to erect these walls to my knowledge, they just appeared one day making even commanders question 'why and how are they here'?

 

[Rabid]

We've seen examples of these sorts of sieges done before, and without fail they rely on some admin fiat (or literally "no you can't break in until we say so") to function. That's just how it is, unless you slap both sides together in a white room and hope one side doesn't get exceedingly mad (which they do anyway).

No matter how well cops fortified the place (actually, because they had foritified the place) you'd probably be seen a lot more complaints had the siege been deadstopped on the lower levels, with claims it was an impossible doomfort (by design). Have rebels use their cool tech stuff to break in and, as happened, it'd be called into question and complained about.

This style of event was, no offence, a lose-lose for the event organizers and players. Even C24 was heavily complained about at the time, primarily because whenever rebels broke through they'd be met with a strider or something else to make them fuck off, but it was a neccesity so they couldn't bulldoze their way through and win the map. A Red Letter Day worked only because rebels were told to hold off attacking until the final day and the goal was always to get them inside the citadel.

tl;dr: Siege style events never work especially well, they're a mess to organize and one side always feels fucked. You literally cannot plan for which side kills which better and even if you do, it usually seems like bullshit from the other end.

 

[Mike65536]

We've seen examples of these sorts of sieges done before, and without fail they rely on some admin fiat (or literally "no you can't break in until we say so") to function. That's just how it is, unless you slap both sides together in a white room and hope one side doesn't get exceedingly mad (which they do anyway).

No matter how well cops fortified the place (actually, because they had foritified the place) you'd probably be seen a lot more complaints had the siege been deadstopped on the lower levels, with claims it was an impossible doomfort (by design). Have rebels use their cool tech stuff to break in and, as happened, it'd be called into question and complained about.

This style of event was, no offence, a lose-lose for the event organizers. Even C24 was heavily complained about at the time, primarily because whenever rebels broke through they'd be met with a strider or something else to make them fuck off, but it was a neccesity so they couldn't bulldoze their way through and win the map.

tl;dr: Siege style events never work especially, they're a mess to organize and one side always feels fucked. You literally cannot plan for which side kills which better and even if you do, it usually seems like bullshit from the other end.

While I agree with the main message here, I feel like there is a middle ground between what happend in city 24. (AKA, Rebels get a breakthrough, and a Strider or APC spawns out of thin air.) And our side getting TP'ed into the nexus with no regard for what defenses the Union side DID make. Don't get me wrong, thematically? It worked, and it worked well. Hearing the initial announcement that the advisor was dead was a morale boost among scattered rebels. (And is actually when our performance started to improve.) It fit the theme of the event well, I just wish it could have been done with some more regard for the other side. I do however understand why as it was done, as it was meant to (I think?) bolster both the event's and the server as a whole's themes and story.

 

[Rabid]

While I agree with the main message here, I feel like there is a middle ground between what happend in city 24. (AKA, Rebels get a breakthrough, and a Strider or APC spawns out of thin air.) And our side getting TP'ed into the nexus with no regard for what defenses the Union side DID make. Don't get me wrong, thematically? It worked, and it worked well. Hearing the initial announcement that the advisor was dead was a morale boost among scattered rebels. (And is actually when our performance started to improve.) It fit the theme of the event well, I just wish it could have been done with some more regard for the other side. I do however understand why as it was done, as it was meant to (I think?) bolster both the event's and the server as a whole's themes and story.

That's sort of what I mean tbh; thematically rebels doing that is SO much more on-brand and cool for them than just slapping both sides against eachother until one gets wiped out.

But I think there wasn't really a plan for letting cops try and take the upper Nexus back from that strike team, or even letting those rebels be a suicide squad (lol) to do this knowing they were gonna die and that it was a one-way trip. Even that would have let the Combine side have some sort of feeling they did something IC.

 

[Mike65536]

That's sort of what I mean tbh; thematically rebels doing that is SO much more on-brand and cool for them than just slapping both sides against eachother until one gets wiped out.

But I think there wasn't really a plan for letting cops try and take the upper Nexus back from that strike team, or even letting those rebels be a suicide squad (lol) to do this knowing they were gonna die and that it was a one-way trip. Even that would have let the Combine side have some sort of feeling they did something IC.

I dunno about that, I remember being distinctly told that if we were to volunteer it carried a PK risk, the characters inside very much were in danger if they gave the transhumans inside any more reason to shoot them than they should have.

 

[Provingmedusa]

Hi. I was the single combine player who had the definitive choice here apparently. While yes, Simmans predicted a teleported I wasn't expecting them, however, to TP into the only room in the upper area of the nexus that didn't have an automatic defence system like the Core Room did.

Even for me, the whole situation was VERY vague, I had no idea wtf was going on or why it was all happening until the very very end where the CP had already basically splintered.

The whole "radio's being dead" thing wasn't properly communicated by staff to the general combine population. I, myself, got a /itd saying it didn't work so I sat upstairs and had to ignore everyone trying to reach me.

While you don't have to believe me, I don't think it was predetermined at all, it's just that the outcome sort of fell to a single Ordinal who was outnumbered by blacksuit AS-VAL rebels 3 to 1.

I took the confusion in stride and brought it ICly. I even did a coin-flip on just killing Gully and Frankfurt and then just leaving. It pains me even more because I had sent my only other Soldier with me (HUNTER-5) to go help with the defence downstairs because I convinced myself "Surely the rebels won't TP into the room THIS time" (I WILL NEVER MAKE THIS MISTAKE AGAIN I'M SORRY SIMMANS) and so I was left alone with a VERY confusing Coup-Esque shit.

From my POV, it was fun. The intense stand-off where I held a VERY important person at the time at gunpoint to the arguments and shouting-matches my Ordinal had to try and comprehend just WHAT was going on but as it's been said a million times already, it was messy.

I was holding out hope for the Civil Protection to come save the day but the teleportees had another C4 of them apparently so that was out of the window.

 

[Tinbe]

To clarify on the whole teleportation thing. No vort players were involved. We used a funky, single-use teleporter in a hidden base to get upside.

And I'd like to go on a record to state that I'll be giving away the trenchsuit and AS VAL after this. They were part of a loadout prepared for the three-man striketeam, which I used under the assumption that we'd be facing off a bunch of EOW. I pretty much took that thing off once it was clear we'd won.

I have no desire to use them any more than I have to - both because I specifically want to RP detriments when using a blacksuit (character health gimmick), and because I know "blacksuit and OP gun" is the baby-eating devil and whoever uses those items must go to hell to get their balls zapped or whatever the stereotype demands. If you still loathe me for even using them in the first place... you do you?

 

[ovxy]

blacksuit AS-VAL rebels

That economy wipe lasted long

 

[Rabid]

That economy wipe lasted long

Eh, three guys having them when they're getting sent on a mission like that is hardly breaking the bank though, is it?

 

[ovxy]

Eh, three guys having them when they're getting sent on a mission like that is hardly breaking the bank though, is it?

It's about the principle

 

[Simman102]

Eh, three guys having them when they're getting sent on a mission like that is hardly breaking the bank though, is it?

AS VAL is a 900 DPS gun. You can kill 4 cops within 1 second of shooting it.
A coordinated squad of three could easily curbstomp in any fight, let alone with vort support.

 

[Rabid]

It's about the principle

AS VAL is a 900 DPS gun. You can kill 4 cops within 1 second of shooting it.
A coordinated squad of three could easily wipe the floor in any fight, let alone with vort support.

But they didn't? There was the obvious aim of gearing these guys up for their (intended) huge PK risk and what ending up being (according to what I'm seeing) an RP'd out scenario with @Provingmedusa's Ordinal in the office. If those three people (and one vort) had ran down into the Nexus with those OP guns and massacred you all, I'd see the point.

But I mean I also don't remember seeing complaints like this when the Combine were getting themselves unkillable synths spawned to back up their ground forces in C24, or when silent dropships were being used to sneakily airdrop OTA up at Ineu's villa. Where was the 'principle' or care for balance then? Only, those firefights did happen and were impacted.

 

[ovxy]

To clarify on the whole teleportation thing. No vort players were involved. We used a funky, single-use teleporter in a hidden base to get upside.

Didn't HL2 set a precedent that teleporters can only communicate with one another, and not whatever random spot you may choose? Was there a teleporter at the top of the Nexus? Did the rebels scout out that location beforehand with a Vort slave? Did they have the coordinates? Many oversights including the fact Combine raided and blew up the base/tech you used, assuming it's the vending machine one.

 

[Simman102]

But they didn't? There was the obvious aim of gearing these guys up for their (intended) huge PK risk and what ending up being (according to what I'm seeing) an RP'd out scenario with @Provingmedusa's Ordinal in the office. If those three people (and one vort) had ran down into the Nexus with those OP guns and massacred you all, I'd see the point.

They still have the guns.

were getting themselves unkillable synths spawned to back up their ground forces in C24

no idea what this is referencing

when silent dropships were being used to sneakily airdrop OTA up at Ineu's villa

There absolutely were complaints and it wasn't a map change event right after an "economy wipe".

 

[Rabid]

They still have the guns.

Great. And you had a propblocked map to funnel them, an APC, mines and turrets and you won the street battle. So they changed nothing, and one of those guys isn't gonna use it again.

no idea what this is referencing

The fact that whenever rebels would manage to push the city there'd be a strider or gunship to push them back across the bridge so the map didn't end on the spot, or that cops got an almost unkillable APC every map.

Its not that I don't understand it, I just didn't see Combine players get vocal about how unfair that must have been (because why would they).

There absolutely were complaints and it wasn't a map change event.

Again, not from the Combine side, including the person who actually knowingly did it.

See my point? There was never a fuss or complaints about this sort of balance when it was going the way of the Combine being the antagonists. Suddenly there's the "principle" of upholding a wipe because three people under PK risk got good guns and hypotheticals about how these rebels would have deleted every cop online which also didn't happen.

This is shit you yourself would protest rebels doing whenever OTA deployed, hyping up what-ifs.

 

[ovxy]

Great. And you had a propblocked map to funnel them, mines and turrets and you won the street battle. So they changed nothing.

We didn't ask for the propblocks, staff placed them of their own volition.

The fact that whenever rebels would manage to push the city there'd be a strider or gunship to push them back across the bridge so the map didn't end on the spot, or that cops got an almost unkillable APC every map.

Its not that I don't understand it, I just didn't see Combine players get vocal about how unfair that must have been (because why would they).

It's not really unfair, it's more of a tool to prevent rebels over-extending when staff wanted the map to have more mileage, just like the deus ex machinas we saw yesterday during a map change event.

Again, not from the Combine side, including the person who actually knowingly did it.

See my point? There was never a fuss or complaints about this sort of balance when it was going the way of the Combine being the antagonists. Suddenly there's the "principle" of upholding a wipe and hypotheticals about how these rebels would have deleted every cop online which also didn't happen.

This is shit you yourself would protest rebels doing whenever OTA deployed, hyping up what-ifs.

Airwatch makes sound for the person who spawned it in/was near it, of course the person who used the silent dropship wouldn't know they're silent (me). I unknowingly used Airwatch audio cues for months without being aware that no one could actually hear them.

I'm sorry Rabid, but you don't play the server, and your arguments based on hearsay hold barely any weight. You're comparing a bug to staff consciously violating their own promise of an economy wipe.

 

[Eviction Notice]

Great. And you had a propblocked map to funnel them

Again this wasn't the combine sides choice, this was done by staff without any of our knowledge.

gearing these guys up for their (intended) huge PK risk

The issue isn't the intent, it's the fact that we've just had a wipe and somehow the resistance is once-again easily getting access to a ton of automatic-weapons and armour. I saw a vast majority of players yesterday who haven't been active and couldn't possibly have worked towards the place they were in loot-wise.

I'd like to ask, were weapons handed out by event characters to rebels before the siege? If so, there's no use for a wipe because there's no economy- it's just when staff decide people should be geared.

 

[Tinbe]

Didn't HL2 set a precedent that teleporters can only communicate with one another, and not whatever random spot you may choose? Was there a teleporter at the top of the Nexus? Did the rebels scout out that location beforehand with a Vort slave? Did they have the coordinates? Many oversights including the fact Combine raided and blew up the base/tech you used, assuming it's the vending machine one.

All I know is that the teleportation process was different from usual, somehow, as described in the atmospheric /it messages before getting TP'd. You'd have to ask staff about the details.

As for the raid, idk details there either. When we got in yesterday, things like the stasis pod had been shot to shit, but the teleporter in its own hidden chamber seemed untouched.

 

[Simman102]

Great. And you had a propblocked map to funnel them, mines and turrets and you won the street battle. So they changed nothing, and one of those guys isn't gonna use it again.

This isn't about how the event went down, they could have not had guns at all considering there was an impenetrable propblock protecting them.
This is about the fact that both OTA and Civil Protection had their high-end guns removed, and rebels get (arguably, bar the AR2) the strongest gun in the game spawned in x3 two maps in after an "economy wipe" which was meant to tone the die-in-four-bodyshots combat down.

The fact that whenever rebels would manage to push the city there'd be a strider or gunship to push them back across the bridge so the map didn't end on the spot, or that cops got an almost unkillable APC every map.

The Combine players have no agency over gunships or striders, it's entirely up to the event/staff team.
The APC is not only NOT unkillable (there were even maneuveres like "we're giving every cell a single RPG" which then some of them proceeded to waste on a sweep of pistol-only cops) but also is deployed as a countermeasure to oneshot vortigaunts with infinite range, not because 3 rebels with MP7s show up.

See my point? There was never a fuss or complaints about this sort of balance when it was going the way of the Combine being the antagonists.

The dropship made perfect sense in the context of that map's layout + staff set up a system of shooting them down and what to do in that case. It wasn't our fault that it made no noise upon arrival.

 

[constantdisplay]

The issue isn't the intent, it's the fact that we've just had a wipe and somehow the resistance is once-again easily getting access to a ton of automatic-weapons and armour. I saw a vast majority of players yesterday who haven't been active and couldn't possibly have worked towards the place they were in loot-wise.

I'd like to ask, were weapons handed out by event characters to rebels before the siege? If so, there's no use for a wipe because there's no economy- it's just when staff decide people should be geared.

a ton? the gear given out yesterday was mp7s/equivalents, ammo, and basic kevlar to bring us up to par with cops
majority of people didnt have anything more than a pistol/mp5k/other shitty guns before yesterday
i dont think many people aside from the citadel team/rebel leaders have anything better than kevlar either