Alex on HL2 i17 & outlands

[Raijiin]

This is the problem, those are your personal opinions, not actual arguments saying why it is a good idea

We already have it in what is considered surface in D4

HCs can change this right now if they want to, don't see the map making a difference outside of letting them kill more people

Again, scanner activity is something HCs can fix/improve incentive to flag on

Ah yes, because a change in scenery makes a big difference when you still just walk in circles outside of the occasional sweep

Threat is there, just not the way you remember it

Would rather use C08 seeing as the map isn't so lifeless and bland to look at. We can also always develop the map further unlike i17 which will be the same boring map unless fundemental changes are made to performance, looks and the map in general

Another problem is the favt that you dont want to aknowledge the map's faults, several points habe already been made regarding as how i17 is better, just look a few pages back in thos threa or the other.
Im not saying i17 is flawless but its objectively better than C08 for reasona already stated

 

[FieldersNL]

Or use a different new map?

 

[Ond]

Another problem is the favt that you dont want to aknowledge the map's faults, several points habe already been made regarding as how i17 is better, just look a few pages back in thos threa or the other.
Im not saying i17 is flawless but its objectively better than C08 for reasona already stated

You are ignoring the point made that i17 has had multiple versions made to it, yet C08 has had changes which were superior both visually, performance wise and gameplay wise. Changing to i17 will do nothing but satisfy the nostalgia boner of a few people, who then in 3-4 months time will beg for us to go back.

Currently we have a mapper who is both willing and damn good at mapping, I don't see why we would throw this good map and developer through a loop by changing to a map which we have used for three years. Currently C08 has so much more potential as a platform for us to develop off of further.

The only way I see changing the map will make a difference is seperating rebels more via hidden bases, and letting cops kill more people per sweep.

 

[Rengar]

This is the problem, those are your personal opinions, not actual arguments saying why it is a good idea

We already have it in what is considered surface in D4

HCs can change this right now if they want to, don't see the map making a difference outside of letting them kill more people

Again, scanner activity is something HCs can fix/improve incentive to flag on

Ah yes, because a change in scenery makes a big difference when you still just walk in circles outside of the occasional sweep

Threat is there, just not the way you remember it

Would rather use C08 seeing as the map isn't so lifeless and bland to look at. We can also always develop the map further unlike i17 which will be the same boring map unless fundemental changes are made to performance, looks and the map in general

We already have it in what is considered surface in D4

I used to main surface rebelling in lemon punch, and I can't say surface rebellion is still a thing.

HCs can change this right now if they want to, don't see the map making a difference outside of letting them kill more people

they can do sweeps but considering there are only 2 exits for the new rebels and cps can come from both of them, resulting in them being trapped while the higher rebels can just use the third exit which you pretty much need a blacksuit and a filter, if sweeps weren't rare we would just been killing the newer rebels, that would damage the rebel economy not improve it.

Again, scanner activity is something HCs can fix/improve incentive to flag on

how could they fix it? they can't let scanners in d4, if you want to ask why, the answer I gave to why sweeps shouldn't be common in this map is the same answer.

Ah yes, because a change in scenery makes a big difference when you still just walk in circles outside of the occasional sweep

it does make a big difference. For example only thing they do at this point is to deal with minges and patrol, if we returned to i17 sweeps would be more common and rebels would actually start dying resulting in them making new citizens, citizen rp would improve, giving cps a chance to role play with different people that aren't minges but actual role-players, as I mentioned in my previous post city and d4 are empty.

Threat is there, just not the way you remember it

only threat for rebels is other rebels.

 

[chad]

Gameplay > Aesthetics

 

[Blackquill]

Question is

What would people's opinions be on c8 being edited again, taking these issues and problems into consideration, because I've not seen anyone mention that circumstance.

 

[Goatson]

Question is

What would people's opinions be on c8 being edited again, taking these issues and problems into consideration, because I've not seen anyone mention that circumstance.

yes

 

[Raijiin]

You are ignoring the point made that i17 has had multiple versions made to it, yet C08 has had changes which were superior both visually, performance wise and gameplay wise. Changing to i17 will do nothing but satisfy the nostalgia boner of a few people, who then in 3-4 months time will beg for us to go back.

Currently we have a mapper who is both willing and damn good at mapping, I don't see why we would throw this good map and developer through a loop by changing to a map which we have used for three years. Currently C08 has so much more potential as a platform for us to develop off of further.

The only way I see changing the map will make a difference is seperating rebels more via hidden bases, and letting cops kill more people per sweep.

The community can pick whatever they want, but in the end, the map will always be better than C08.
How come in this map, we never had anything like the rooks or the frogs, surface rebelrp and fun citizen rp?

The fact that we stayed on i17 for so long is a testament to how good it is.
And also, if Atle wants, along with some help from the community, he can make a damn good map if he tries really hard.

 

[chad]

Question is

What would people's opinions be on c8 being edited again, taking these issues and problems into consideration, because I've not seen anyone mention that circumstance.

If that's gonna happen, there's gonna need to be loads of changes, might aswell make a new map from scratch

 

[Ond]

I used to main surface rebelling in lemon punch, and I can't say surface rebellion is still a thing.

When I go to D4 I see multiple people with bats, knives, pistols etc. So I don't know what you are talking about. RebelRP is better than it's ever been in terms of sheer numbers.

they can do sweeps but considering there are only 2 exits for the new rebels and cps can come from both of them, resulting in them being trapped while the higher rebels can just use the third exit which you pretty much need a blacksuit and a filter, if sweeps weren't rare we would just been killing the newer rebels, that would damage the rebel economy not improve it.

Didn't you say that more threat is a good thing? Regardless of who dies it is good for the economy. Supply and demand will only improve for the better if rebels die regardless of status.

how could they fix it? they can't let scanners in d4, if you want to ask why, the answer I gave to why sweeps shouldn't be common in this map is the same answer.

Give Scanner players something as a reward for their effort? I asked for a system to be implemented a long time ago now, where if they were online for x amount of time and actually were active, HCs could reward them with SC on their unit or something so that they also get a slice of the cake.

it does make a big difference. For example only thing they do at this point is to deal with minges and patrol, if we returned to i17 sweeps would be more common and rebels would actually start dying resulting in them making new citizens, citizen rp would improve, giving cps a chance to role play with different people that aren't minges but actual role-players, as I mentioned in my previous post city and d4 are empty.

And dealing with minges and patrol was the exact same role CPs had in i17 as well. They are the main minge-killers of the server which is their purpose. CPs are supposed to act as the in-character administrators, weeding out the idiots for us. If people want to RP with CPs they can do so at their on will, but changing the map won't change a player's mindset.

only threat for rebels is other rebels.

Do you want me to go through the logs of how many rebels the CPs have killed and post it here

Gameplay > Aesthetics

Thanks for your compelling and thought out argument in regards to the great map debate

 

[aiaininja]

Question is

What would people's opinions be on c8 being edited again, taking these issues and problems into consideration, because I've not seen anyone mention that circumstance.

Should this option be the one taken into action, the main focus in my opinion should be on improving the sewers.

 

[Deadpool]

You are ignoring the point made that i17 has had multiple versions made to it, yet C08 has had changes which were superior both visually, performance wise and gameplay wise. Changing to i17 will do nothing but satisfy the nostalgia boner of a few people, who then in 3-4 months time will beg for us to go back.

Currently we have a mapper who is both willing and damn good at mapping, I don't see why we would throw this good map and developer through a loop by changing to a map which we have used for three years. Currently C08 has so much more potential as a platform for us to develop off of further.

The only way I see changing the map will make a difference is seperating rebels more via hidden bases, and letting cops kill more people per sweep.

says the guy that wanted intentions instead of rank points because of a nostalgia boner

 

[Blackquill]

If that's gonna happen, there's gonna need to be loads of changes, might aswell make a new map from scratch

It takes months to make a map from scratch. Any mapper here can attest to it. Most good maps are in development for years.

One of the general complaints I'm seeing is that c8 doesn't have a d4 area, and suffers as a result of it.

 

[Ond]

The community can pick whatever they want, but in the end, the map will always be better than C08.

The community of WW3RP picked what they wanted because they thought it was better for them, and up until CW they were always arguing over weapon bases.

How come in this map, we never had anything like the rooks or the frogs, surface rebelrp and fun citizen rp?

Because at the time that we changed to this map resistance groups were already developed to the point where they could afford guns, suits and filters. Which resulted in multiple of the groups splitting off to the outlands/sewers and staying there. There are still groups of people that run the bars located in D4

The fact that we stayed on i17 for so long is a testament to how good it is.

We stayed on it for so long because we didn't have a map that fit the playerbase, but given that we have a good mapper who is willing to work with the current map and make it fit our needs I don't see a reason to change just because some people want their nostalgia boner satisfied.

 

[Deadpool]

It takes months to make a map from scratch. Any mapper here can attest to it. Most good maps are in development for years.

One of the general complaints I'm seeing is that c8 doesn't have a d4 area, and suffers as a result of it.

cps and dispatches are also inactive because this map isn't fun for them

 

[Blackquill]

cps and dispatches are also inactive because this map isn't fun for them

Yeah, and a d4 can also be a fix for that too in some regards

i17's patrol route on its own is just a rectangle really, unlike the small cube c8 has now - however the fact units used to sweep d4 semi- frequently, coupled with the fact you would have the GG as a sort of intersection between the two, led to a lot of interaction and conflict there. It gave them something to do at least, that and the i17 nexus was good for cops - on c8 it's prolly one of the worst faction areas out of all of em.

 

[Rengar]

When I go to D4 I see multiple people with bats, knives, pistols etc. So I don't know what you are talking about. RebelRP is better than it's ever been in terms of sheer numbers.

I only see 2-3 people in d4 but rarely some sort of a rebel group comes into d4 bullies blue suits and leaves after 10 minutes.

Didn't you say that more threat is a good thing? Regardless of who dies it is good for the economy. Supply and demand will only improve for the better if rebels die regardless of status.

rebels dying is a good thing but to an extent, if you kill too many rebels it's bad, if you don't kill any it's bad, if you kill a couple of rebels it's good.
also that's different, my point is that medium rebels with blacksuits always could run to outlands when a sweep occurs, that's something newer rebels can't do, there are only 2 exits that newer rebels can use and considering civil protection units come from these exits they are pretty much trapped, it would result in newer rebels being pked every time! it would be a big barrier for new people to make a rebel... which is a bad thing! but considering in i17 there are lots of space to run and hide, newer rebels, medium rebels and high rebels have a chance of survival, that's something newer rebels don't have in c08. Also more threat is a good thing but it's good to an extent.

Give Scanner players something as a reward for their effort? I asked for a system to be implemented a long time ago now, where if they were online for x amount of time and actually were active, HCs could reward them with SC on their unit or something so that they also get a slice of the cake.

yeah making it more fun would be better, people would actually start playing on it, if you just give dispatch player's unit some sc it would be still boring, most of the people wouldn't even bother.

And dealing with minges and patrol was the exact same role CPs had in i17 as well. They are the main minge-killers of the server which is their purpose. CPs are supposed to act as the in-character administrators, weeding out the idiots for us. If people want to RP with CPs they can do so at their on will, but changing the map won't change a player's mindset.

well your point is pretty valid in this one but still i17 gives them more things to do like actual sweeps.

Do you want me to go through the logs of how many rebels the CPs have killed and post it here

sure. make sure they are not bluesuits but actual rebels though.

 

[*honk honk*]

Question is

What would people's opinions be on c8 being edited again, taking these issues and problems into consideration, because I've not seen anyone mention that circumstance.

I'm pretty sure you said @Atle lost motivation to work further on the map.

NOT on the forums.

 

[Blackquill]

I'm pretty sure you said @Atle lost motivation to work further on the map.

NOT on the forums.

I mean I could say I already know the answer to the possibility hence why I suggested it.

 

[*honk honk*]

I mean I could say I already know the answer to the possibility hence why I suggested it.

To be honest with some improvements, like a better sewer system would be amazing if we could actually do that.

Although I remember some people mentioning how the map's already pushing the limits as is with the Outlands.

At this point I don't care for the Outlands, to be real. I don't like the Outlands area, I'd rather we had a beach or a more complex sewer system like we did. I do not expect a second server for Outlands, either.

It might seem odd seeing me say this, but Outlands feels NOTHING like Half-Life 2. I'd rather have it removed. It has gotten some resemblance, but I do not think it fits the HL2RP setting. There's a lot of flaws such as OTA not being able to sweep frequently, it being a save haven and what not. I don't want to sound elitist, even though I will sound elitist, but I believe any danger we previously had was lost. There's an overflow of blacksuits and people like crafters and BMDs rarely get any work. People get SPAS-12s within a month or so of farming tokens and nobody dies.

I miss the danger of I17. If somebody's going to use the argument of: "but yeah you had a secret base you fucking cunt", no I didn't. For the longest time nobody noticed my character and I MISS being in danger. Being in danger is part of the fun. Knowing you might get gatted at ANY second in the sewers whilst running about was fun. Dangerous if fun. Makes you think.

Overall I think that if there was a way to do that, I'd be strongly supporting it.