Information Triple Attack Weekend

[overki11]

Well, at the very least it would be easier to implement than any other legislation considering how difficult it is for anything to get passed in the first place :rolleyes:
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What the fuck kind of stupid logic is this?

Go away

I like how you refute me by questioning my logic and telling me to leave the thread.

Unless I took zak's post out of context (maybe i did), my point remains.
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anybody can use a gun, doesn't take a genius to point and pull the trigger

teaching people how to be safe with guns i.e. not keeping them loaded, fingers off triggers, basic shit like that that surprisingly isn't common knowledge

would prevent a hell of a lot of accidental deaths

safe with guns, use guns safely are different

edit: also accidental gun deaths aren't that big of a problem, only 505 in 2013

 

[casool]

I like how you refute me by questioning my logic and telling me to leave the thread.

Unless I took zak's post out of context (maybe i did), my point remains.

There is no point to refute because it literally does not make any sense, you missed the point of his post entirely

Like he said, it doesn't take a genius to pull the trigger.

What he is advocating is that gun education be implemented for those who DO NOT have ill intention and simply want to be informed on how to properly handle a firearm in the situation they must come in contact with one. A surprising number of people have died from accidents. Although I can't bring up any statistics for that, it's happened a few times before.


You're trying to spin his post into something that has virtually no connection

 

[overki11]

There is no point to refute because it literally does not make any sense, you missed the point of his post entirely

Like he said, it doesn't take a genius to pull the trigger.

What he is advocating is that gun education be implemented for those who DO NOT have ill intention and simply want to be informed on how to properly handle a firearm in the situation they must come in contact with one. A surprising number of people have died from accidents. Although I can't bring up any statistics for that, it's happened a few times before.

yeah, i guess i took his post out of context. gun safety classes should be free for everyone, sure. learning how to properly use a firearm should not be, and you should have to have a gun license to attend one.

and no, it doesn't take a genius to pull the trigger. it does however take proper training to operate a firearm very effectively.

look at the recent munich shooter, if you've saw the video where he opened fire at those citizens at the mcdonalds, he fired way too many rounds than he should have needed to fire if he wanted to kill all of those people. had he been properly trained in firearms the attack may have been much more lethal.

the orlando shooter was trained in firearms operation (iirc), and he killed 50 people by himself. 50 fucking people. not to mention he actually shot a swat in the head during a raid(who is thankfully alive, due to the wonder known as a helmet)

 

[casool]

edit: also accidental gun deaths aren't that big of a problem, only 505 in 2013

So because something isn't that big of a problem nothing should be done about it?

I don't get why you're trying to play devil's advocate here, there is nothing bad that can come out of having more education on proper firearm use

 

[overki11]

So because something isn't that big of a problem nothing should be done about it?

I don't get why you're trying to play devil's advocate here, there is nothing bad that can come out of having more education on proper firearm use

never said that there is something bad coming out of it. read my newest post.

edit: im saying that there are bigger problems to worry about. the government should be focused on trying to fix the fucking huge amount of attacks recently, rather than a few accidental gun deaths. if something can be easily done about it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that.

 

[LatvianViking]

never said that there is something bad coming out of it. read my newest post.

edit: im saying that there are bigger problems to worry about. the government should be focused on trying to fix the fucking huge amount of attacks recently, rather than a few accidental gun deaths. if something can be easily done about it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that.

Government does not care about the attacks. All they do is condemn the attackers and provide no solutions to stop the attacks.

 

[casool]

the orlando shooter was trained in firearms operation (iirc), and he killed 50 people by himself. 50 fucking people. not to mention he actually shot a swat in the head during a raid(who is thankfully alive, due to the wonder known as a helmet)

Omar Mateen attended a Criminal Justice program, worked as a recruit in a correctional facility, and then a security firm.

Is it really that surprising that he received some sort of training at one point? I mean, you can't say that we shouldn't give people working in these fields training when it's a potential part of their job.

 

[overki11]

Omar Mateen attended a Criminal Justice program, worked as a recruit in a correctional facility, and then a security firm.

Is it really that surprising that he received some sort of training at one point? I mean, you can't say that we shouldn't give people working in these fields training when it's a potential part of their job.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Government does not care about the attacks. All they do is condemn the attackers and provide no solutions to stop the attacks.

agreed. it's disgusting. there needs to be an initiative to stop it.

 

[casool]

edit: im saying that there are bigger problems to worry about. the government should be focused on trying to fix the fucking huge amount of attacks recently, rather than a few accidental gun deaths. if something can be easily done about it, go ahead, nothing wrong with that.

If they could, they would:

The measures Monday each went down in succession on largely party line votes. The 60-vote threshold required for passage prevented even Republicans, who control the chamber, from pushing through their favored measures.
The Senate rejected first a Republican proposal to update the background check system for gun purchases, which would have required states to add more information on mental health records to a national database. It also included a provision to alert law enforcement agencies when an individual who was on a government terror watch list in the last five years buys a gun.
The proposal, sponsored by Iowa GOP Sen. Chuck Grassley, failed to get the 60 votes for passage. The vote was 53-47, largely along party lines. Some Senate Democrats warned that the legislation's revised definition of who would be considered mentally ill could potentially still allow those with significant psychological issues to legally purchase guns.
A second proposal to expand the background check system for those buying guns to require checks at gun shows and for online purchases went down 44-56. Murphy, the Democrat who launched a nearly 15-hour filibuster last week to press for new gun restrictions after the Orlando massacre where 49 people were killed, sponsored the proposal.
A Republican proposal to delay gun sales to individuals included on a government terror watch list failed in a mostly party-line vote of 53-47. The measure was sponsored by Texas GOP Sen. John Cornyn. The bill would allow a judge to permanently block a purchase if the court determined probable cause that the individual is involved in terrorist activity.
And a Democratic option that sought to bar all gun sales to those individuals on the terror watch list failed 47-53, the second time the proposal went down to defeat after a mass shooting. California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein originally pushed the proposal in December after a shooting in San Bernardino, and revived it after the horrific Orlando nightclub shooting by a gunman who pledged allegiance to the terror group ISIS.
Feinstein's plan did garner the support of some Republicans, including Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire who is facing a fierce re-election bid this year.
Sen. Mark Kirk, another vulnerable Republican up for re-election, voted with Democrats on all of the four amendments.
On the flip side, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, a moderate Democrat, voted with Republicans to oppose the two amendments offered by Murphy and Feinstein.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/senate-gun-votes-congress/


As you can see, nothing can get passed.

 

[overki11]

Omar Mateen attended a Criminal Justice program, worked as a recruit in a correctional facility, and then a security firm.

Is it really that surprising that he received some sort of training at one point? I mean, you can't say that we shouldn't give people working in these fields training when it's a potential part of their job.

If they could, they would:

The measures Monday each went down in succession on largely party line votes. The 60-vote threshold required for passage prevented even Republicans, who control the chamber, from pushing through their favored measures.
The Senate rejected first a Republican proposal to update the background check system for gun purchases, which would have required states to add more information on mental health records to a national database. It also included a provision to alert law enforcement agencies when an individual who was on a government terror watch list in the last five years buys a gun.
The proposal, sponsored by Iowa GOP Sen. Chuck Grassley, failed to get the 60 votes for passage. The vote was 53-47, largely along party lines. Some Senate Democrats warned that the legislation's revised definition of who would be considered mentally ill could potentially still allow those with significant psychological issues to legally purchase guns.
A second proposal to expand the background check system for those buying guns to require checks at gun shows and for online purchases went down 44-56. Murphy, the Democrat who launched a nearly 15-hour filibuster last week to press for new gun restrictions after the Orlando massacre where 49 people were killed, sponsored the proposal.
A Republican proposal to delay gun sales to individuals included on a government terror watch list failed in a mostly party-line vote of 53-47. The measure was sponsored by Texas GOP Sen. John Cornyn. The bill would allow a judge to permanently block a purchase if the court determined probable cause that the individual is involved in terrorist activity.
And a Democratic option that sought to bar all gun sales to those individuals on the terror watch list failed 47-53, the second time the proposal went down to defeat after a mass shooting. California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein originally pushed the proposal in December after a shooting in San Bernardino, and revived it after the horrific Orlando nightclub shooting by a gunman who pledged allegiance to the terror group ISIS.
Feinstein's plan did garner the support of some Republicans, including Sen. Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire who is facing a fierce re-election bid this year.
Sen. Mark Kirk, another vulnerable Republican up for re-election, voted with Democrats on all of the four amendments.
On the flip side, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, a moderate Democrat, voted with Republicans to oppose the two amendments offered by Murphy and Feinstein.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/senate-gun-votes-congress/


As you can see, nothing can get passed.

Democracy isn't perfect. Far from it. Majority rules.

 

[casool]

I don't see how my argument is a strawman. What am I missing?

 

[Luft]

All that drama for something that happens nearly every week.
Apparently guns kill people... smh. The idiots USING the gun are killing people.

 

[overki11]

I don't see how my argument is a strawman. What am I missing?

I'm saying that training (and jobs like security) should be restricted to people who have a gun license and have been taken through thorough background checks. Omar Mateen did not have a thorough background check. You misrepresented my argument by saying that I think that people in jobs like security shouldn't be given training to avoid more lethal attacks.
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All that drama for something that happens nearly every week.
Apparently guns kill people... smh. The idiots USING the gun are killing people.

no shit. the problem is it's easier to do it with a gun.

the pickaxe doesn't break apart the rock, the man wielding it does. but could the man have broken apart the rock without the pickaxe?

 

[casool]

I'm saying that training (and jobs like security) should be restricted to people who have a gun license and have been taken through thorough background checks. Omar Mateen did not have a thorough background check. You misrepresented my argument by saying that I think that people in jobs like security shouldn't be given training to avoid more lethal attacks.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-orlando/

The security officer status in Florida has various levels–classes “D,” “M,” or “MB,” among others. And according to the FDACS website, an individual with a class “D,” “M,” or “MB” security license must also get a Statewide Firearms License (class “G”). The firearms license allows the security licensee to carry two guns on his person when performing security duties in the state.

Background checks are required for both the Security Officer license and the Statewide Firearms License. Those checks include thorough criminal checks, too. Mateen would have had to pass such checks to acquire his licenses and possess firearms.

Despite passing these background checks, Mateen shot and killed 50 individuals at the “Pulse” night club, which catered to gay customers. He wounded 53 victims, as well, before police killed him. A Democratic lawmaker on the House Intelligence Committee said that Mateen pledged allegiance to the Islamic State, and Mateen’s father told reporters that his late son was enraged by the sight of two men kissing several months ago.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ound-checks-on-him-it-said-and-found-nothing/

The firm said that he "was subject to detailed company screening" that it performed itself when Mateen was recruited in 2007 and again in 2013. Fairbrass said that the background checks it performed on Mateen involved a personality test, and that the firm checked his employment and education history, his driving record, performed a drug test and looked at his credit history. Mateen also conducted 40 hours of security training and 28 hours of firearms training.



Seems fairly thorough to me

 

[overki11]

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-orlando/

The security officer status in Florida has various levels–classes “D,” “M,” or “MB,” among others. And according to the FDACS website, an individual with a class “D,” “M,” or “MB” security license must also get a Statewide Firearms License (class “G”). The firearms license allows the security licensee to carry two guns on his person when performing security duties in the state.

Background checks are required for both the Security Officer license and the Statewide Firearms License. Those checks include thorough criminal checks, too. Mateen would have had to pass such checks to acquire his licenses and possess firearms.

Despite passing these background checks, Mateen shot and killed 50 individuals at the “Pulse” night club, which catered to gay customers. He wounded 53 victims, as well, before police killed him. A Democratic lawmaker on the House Intelligence Committee said that Mateen pledged allegiance to the Islamic State, and Mateen’s father told reporters that his late son was enraged by the sight of two men kissing several months ago.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ound-checks-on-him-it-said-and-found-nothing/

The firm said that he "was subject to detailed company screening" that it performed itself when Mateen was recruited in 2007 and again in 2013. Fairbrass said that the background checks it performed on Mateen involved a personality test, and that the firm checked his employment and education history, his driving record, performed a drug test and looked at his credit history. Mateen also conducted 40 hours of security training and 28 hours of firearms training.



Seems fairly thorough to me

How did they miss him being on an FBI list for being an ISIS sympathizer?

 

[Zak]

How did they miss him being on an FBI list for being an ISIS sympathizer?

pick your favorite of the three stories

• the gov't is lazy as fuck and didn't properly investigate him
• {insert crackpot conspiracy theory here}
• occasionally people slip through the cracks, even with all the precautions

 

[Deleted member 243]

it's clearly not guns killing people

It's people killing people

 

[casool]

Someone didn't do their paperwork :ok:

 

[overki11]

pick your favorite of the three stories

• the gov't is lazy as fuck and didn't properly investigate him
• {insert crackpot conspiracy theory here}
• occasionally people slip through the cracks, even with all the precautions

1 and 3. both can exist together. both are likely to exist together (in some cases), not saying it did in orlando

 

[Deleted member 243]

the majority of schoolshootings are commited by edgy kids figuring out where daddy put his m1

i mean, it's easy.

Hide your guns better.
let the guns on the safety
don't leave the guns loaded.
hide ammunition in a different safe or closet idfk
gun owners need to retake a test every 2 years to see if they are stable enough to use one.

if more people have guns, then there is a higher chance of someone stopping a terrorist in the act by popping him in the head.

people willing enough to buy a gun, need to learn how to shoot it. How to keep it safe. They also need to take a test every 2 years.

but really, a gun won't aim itself at a person and pull the trigger itself, the dickhead holding it does it.