Serious Script Economy is not my concern

[alex]

50% of the cop playerbase, apparently yea lol

ridiculous

I think if it's somehow a must that under certain circumstances they should be allowed to use voice, even though I still believe that to be ridiculous and hypocritical, it should be done via in-game voice enabled radio where it can be eavesdropped.

 

[Rabid]

That doesn't change the fact that it's clearly metagaming though? I don't understand why we should accept this demand that the server remain text based yet supposedly 50% of the players would leave if they're unable to basically RP with voice anyway.

I'm not saying it isn't metagaming, I'm saying that its a thousand times more stress to enforce it than it is to accept both sides do it in select circumstances and have done since we stopped trying to enforce it beyond the obvious times metagamed information is used (when its picked up at all).

Banning Discord/whatever entirely is a headache nobody needs.

 

[avralwobniar]

I think if it's somehow a must that under certain circumstances they should be allowed to use voice, even though I still believe that to be ridiculous and hypocritical, it should be done via in-game voice enabled radio where it can be eavesdropped.

they'll still quit since the advantage they get over all the beta text chatters will fade away
honestly not really any loss

 

[Ond]

I think if it's somehow a must that under certain circumstances they should be allowed to use voice, even though I still believe that to be ridiculous and hypocritical, it should be done via in-game voice enabled radio where it can be eavesdropped.

I think the fault lies with the fact that a lot of these people still believe they have to "win" every S2K fight they get in, and that losing any equipment is an OOC problem and direct failure if they die

Instead of respawning back at their base, and RPing out the consequences of losing the fight through medRP and punitive action in-character or other stuff

A lot of people still think we're in CityRP where loads of gear falling into rebel hands genuinely matters - but we're not, since rebels literally get shit given to them for free by event characters lol

 

[Cindy]

I do get what Rabid's saying in that it's like trying to remove a weed from the garden that's nearly if not entirely impossible to totally flush out, whether it's against the rules or not.

Discord is a fuckin' menace to roleplay servers lol.

 

[alex]

I'm not saying it isn't metagaming, I'm saying that its a thousand times more stress to enforce it than it is to accept both sides do it in select circumstances and have done since we stopped trying to enforce it beyond the obvious times metagamed information is used (when its picked up at all).

Banning Discord/whatever entirely is a headache nobody needs.

Okay then we just deem metagaming to no longer be against the rules. A rule that is unenforced is pointless.

I think the fault lies with the fact that a lot of these people still believe they have to "win" every S2K fight they get in, and that losing any equipment is an OOC problem and direct failure if they die

Instead of respawning back at their base, and RPing out the consequences of losing the fight through medRP and punitive action in-character or other stuff

Yeah, I think you're most likely right but permitting people to gain an advantage in that way isn't helping the situation.

I do get what Rabid's saying in that it's like trying to remove a weed from the garden that's nearly if not entirely impossible to totally flush out, whether it's against the rules or not.

Discord is a fuckin' menace to roleplay servers lol.

But my argument has never been that we should constantly seek it out. Metagaming is against the rules and that rule isn't being enforced.

 

[Ond]

Yeah, I think you're most likely right but permitting people to gain an advantage in that way isn't helping the situation.

Yeah of course not

Its jarring as fuck to see dudes just running around or not talking but obviously communicating when you're trying to type stuff out and actually play as intended lol

But to some people getting the S2K dubs and dabbing on rebels/CPs means more than playing the game seriously

 

[Chiptune]

That doesn't change the fact that it's clearly metagaming though? I don't understand why we should accept this demand that the server remain text based yet supposedly 50% of the players would leave if they're unable to basically RP with voice anyway.


Genuine question, why can't those people use in-game voice if it were enabled for specific circumstances?

I'd imagine it's because of people like me who do not enjoy having to hear voices while roleplaying. Yes, you could make it optional and have the ability to mute everyone... but then it'd be the exact same issue, they'd be expecting you to hear them and complain when you don't.

 

[Cindy]

Okay then we just deem metagaming to no longer be against the rules. A rule that is unenforced is pointless.

/

But my argument has never been that we should constantly seek it out. Metagaming is against the rules and that rule isn't being enforced.

I guess the question Rabid has (and to an extent, so do I) is how do you begin enforcing something out of your jurisdiction and is not able to be really looked into? Like, we know right now that certain people are using it, sure, and we can enforce that, but in less obvious situations you can really only suspect people.

I wasn't afraid to take action if I felt the case of suspicion was strong enough after numerous instances when I was in the admin/headstaff chair at TnB but I do think this is an important question to ask in regards to looking into how we tackle metagaming overall.

 

[alex]

I'd imagine it's because of people like me who do not enjoy having to hear voices while roleplaying. Yes, you could make it optional and have the ability to mute everyone... but then it'd be the exact same issue, they'd be expecting you to hear them and complain when you don't.

That's fair but it would at least be your choice to mute it. I'm not actually suggesting that be added, merely that if they must use voice it should be in-game where others can hear.

I guess the question Rabid has (and to an extent, so do I) is how do you begin enforcing something out of your jurisdiction and is not able to be really looked into? Like, we know right now that certain people are using it, sure, and we can enforce that, but in less obvious situations you can really only suspect people.

You start by making it clear that it is considered metagaming and will result in a permaban then proceed to punish those that don't stop? It's pretty easy actually to see that someone acted on information they didn't learn in the server because everything you type into the chat box is logged.

Yes there will be instances where someone or a group keep it well hidden but eventually you're going to realise they are acting on information they had no way of knowing.

 

[avralwobniar]

I guess the question Rabid has (and to an extent, so do I) is how do you begin enforcing something out of your jurisdiction and is not able to be really looked into? Like, we know right now that certain people are using it, sure, and we can enforce that, but in less obvious situations you can really only suspect people.

I wasn't afraid to take action if I felt the case of suspicion was strong enough after numerous instances when I was in the admin/headstaff chair at TnB but I do think this is an important question to ask in regards to looking into how we tackle metagaming overall.

the same way you catch people metagaming through private text chats, you dont really. if you dont notice it then chances are they really arent doing any damage to begin with

 

[Chiptune]

I guess the question Rabid has (and to an extent, so do I) is how do you begin enforcing something out of your jurisdiction and is not able to be really looked into? Like, we know right now that certain people are using it, sure, and we can enforce that, but in less obvious situations you can really only suspect people.

I wasn't afraid to take action if I felt the case of suspicion was strong enough after numerous instances when I was in the admin/headstaff chair at TnB but I do think this is an important question to ask in regards to looking into how we tackle metagaming overall.

To be honest, if it were enforced, it would:

1. Discourage people from doing it, and increase the chances that some of them actually stop
2. Make it so that they have to be more subtle about it. Seeing two cops suddenly make a ladder without anything spoken ICly would mean they get reported.
3. Get rid of people who can't adapt and cease metagaming. Not a big fan of that, I understand some have their fun differently than others but if it has to come to this...
4. Remove the popular opinion that you have to be in VC. The main issue for me isn't that they do it, it's that they complain when people play differently. If the rules stated that you cannot be in VC, it would stop them from recruiting others into that line of thought, new players would just look at the rules and go: "No, I don't want to be in VC, too risky".

A large group of people freely voice chatting is destructive. A small group of people VCing and trying to be really discreet about it is drastically less destructive.

 

[Rabid]

Okay then we just deem metagaming to no longer be against the rules. A rule that is unenforced is pointless.

Again that isn't what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that enforcing a blanket ban on any OOC communication will be a much bigger headache than not, simply because people will just swap right back to doing as they've always done - private discords and smaller chats, which are literally uneforcable unless someone on the inside grows a concience.

The metagaming side does get picked up, and fairly easily, that's not the part I'm not wanting to subject a whole new generation of staff to.

I remember the last time we used to reinforce the "No VC in S2K or otherwise" religiously for rebels and why it was removed, because having to sit and grill someone every time I caught them doing something that might have been evidence they were in VC was not only exhausting, but pointless, because nobody is going to admit it and either I ban them based on circumstantial evidence or I have to let it go and invariably nothing changes.

 

[alex]

Again that isn't what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that enforcing a blanket ban on any OOC communication will be a much bigger headache than not, simply because people will just swap right back to doing as they've always done - private discords and smaller chats, which are literally uneforcable unless someone on the inside grows a concience.

The metagaming side does get picked up, and fairly easily, that's not the part I'm not wanting to subject a whole new generation of staff to.

I remember the last time we used to reinforce the "No VC in S2K or otherwise" religiously for rebels and why it was removed, because having to sit and grill someone every time I caught them doing something that might have been evidence they were in VC was not only exhausting, but pointless, because nobody is going to admit it and either I ban them based on circumstantial evidence or I have to let it go and invariably nothing changes.

Okay, remove metagaming from the rules.

The rule is only as good as it's enforcement. If you're sitting in a voice channel relaying any information that affects the state of play in the server it's metagaming and should result in a ban. Don't grill someone for doing it, make the rule clear, it's either allowed or not.

Currently the rule isn't clear at all, metagaming isn't allowed unless you're in voice chat with friends during S2K or unless you're really good at hiding it in which case we don't care and won't even try to find out if you're metagaming.

 

[Maytree]

Tbh, it's honestly about time voicechat gets banned.

It just takes the fun out of roleplay and removes the need to do basic in-game relaying and communication skills.

 

[Rabid]

So we're admitting that S2K is going to worsen because there is now no way to call out targets/locations in the most realistic fashion without standing still and frantically typing "r/ REBLE ELFTT" before they get shot, right?

Because there's a reason Cops and OTA had exceptions on using voice for sweeps and such from before I ever joined LP and why we gave rebels that right during S2K too.

 

[avralwobniar]

So we're admitting that S2K is going to worsen because there is now no way to call out targets/locations in the most realistic fashion without standing still and frantically typing "r/ REBLE ELFTT" before they get shot, right?

Because there's a reason Cops and OTA had exceptions on using voice for sweeps and such from before I ever joined LP and why we gave rebels that right during S2K too.

the price you pay to do text based rp

 

[alex]

So we're admitting that S2K is going to worsen because there is now no way to call out targets/locations in the most realistic fashion without standing still and frantically typing "r/ REBLE ELFTT" before they get shot, right?

Because there's a reason Cops and OTA had exceptions on using voice for sweeps and such from before I ever joined LP and why we gave rebels that right during S2K too.

the price you pay to do text based rp

Genuinely this.

Do you want text based roleplay or do you want voice based roleplay? The hybrid is a dysfunctional system that is incredibly unfair as well as clearly rule breaking.

 

[avralwobniar]

Genuinely this.

Do you want text based roleplay or do you want voice based roleplay? The hybrid is a dysfunctional system that is incredibly unfair as well as clearly rule breaking.

could always get rid of s2k for a combat system that supports text

 

[Ond]

could always get rid of s2k for a combat system that supports text

Will never happen with this amount of players

It's impossible to moderate with 50 players