USSR vs Nazi Germany - which was worse

[afric]

The soviets documented everyone they sent and how long they sent them for and if they died. This is because gulags operated like prisons, not like concentration camps. We also have physical evidence such as the graves and letters of those who died.

and what is your source

 

[uncle kev]

The soviets documented everyone they sent and how long they sent them for and if they died. This is because gulags operated like prisons, not like concentration camps. We also have physical evidence such as the graves and letters of those who died.

ah yes, that super efficient soviet bureaucracy where you totally didnt have to bribe civil servants to have even the most basic of operations peformed, i'm sure they dutifully recorded these statistics

 

[Husky]

and what is your source

You can litterely good "Soviet archives gulag" and it will give you a bunch of articles detailing all that was in the Soviets archives and documentation about gulags.

 

[FriendlyMan]

You can litterely good "Soviet archives gulag" and it will give you a bunch of articles detailing all that was in the Soviets archives and documentation about gulags.

and nazi germany admitted to the holocaust, right?

of course not, both countries would be retarded to admit to the atrocities they committed

 

[Husky]

ah yes, that super efficient soviet bureaucracy where you totally didnt have to bribe civil servants to have even the most basic of operations peformed, i'm sure they dutifully recorded these statistics

That has no relevence to what I'm saying, they still documented who they killed, that was the NKVD's entire fucking job in terms of national affairs (They also did the same with the soldiers and kept track of who died and so on.) To claim otherwise is just naive.
[doublepost=1522946094][/doublepost]

and nazi germany admitted to the holocaust, right?

of course not, both countries would be retarded to admit to the atrocities they committed

Yes. Yes they did. You can read the documented files here: http://www.shapell.org/collectionfi...GYPnzNp2tv5TTdfT1lX4rI5q9qE5r5jAaAguJEALw_wcB
http://www.dw.com/en/german-holocaust-archive-to-be-made-public/a-2846406

They kept track of everyone who died in the holocaust and were fannatical about the organisation and documentation of it.

 

[Deleted member 1381]

and nazi germany admitted to the holocaust, right?

of course not, both countries would be retarded to admit to the atrocities they committed

^^
its like what the allies did with omaha beach, reduced the number of casualties/fatalities to boost morale
not so much an atrocity but more or less the same concept

 

[ddæ]

btw my first post was what I’d rather not live in, the ussr

besides husky would rather live in the Soviet Union without the options that have been presented

you’d literally have to ask “hey, wanna live in the Soviet Union???” and he’d jump on the first bus there

 

[afric]

ya'll small brains

live in china

invest in computers

be big brain

 

[Garda De Fier]

btw my first post was what I’d rather not live in, the ussr

besides husky would rather live in the Soviet Union without the options that have been presented

you’d literally have to ask “hey, wanna live in the Soviet Union???” and he’d jump on the first bus there

Without realizing that bus is going to a salt mine in Vorkuta.

 

[FriendlyMan]

Yes. Yes they did. You can read the documented files here: http://www.shapell.org/collectionfi...GYPnzNp2tv5TTdfT1lX4rI5q9qE5r5jAaAguJEALw_wcB
http://www.dw.com/en/german-holocaust-archive-to-be-made-public/a-2846406

They kept track of everyone who died in the holocaust and were fannatical about the organisation and documentation of it.

neither of those sources link to the amount of people killed, people imprisoned / detained =/= killed. it says 17 million in the second article so by that logic more than 66% of people imprisoned were killed... right

 

[Deleted member 1381]

ya'll small brains

live in china

invest in computers

be big brain

real shit mao zedong china worse than nazi germany and soviet union combined

 

[Garda De Fier]

real shit mao zedong china worse than nazi germany and soviet union combined

Deadass.

 

[afric]

real shit mao zedong china worse than nazi germany and soviet union combined

yea but you get real bucks by 2000

 

[uncle kev]

That has no relevence to what I'm saying, they still documented who they killed, that was the NKVD's entire fucking job in terms of national affairs (They also did the same with the soldiers and kept track of who died and so on.) To claim otherwise is just naive.

I don't know why I am humoring you with a reply, no one has ever convinced another that they are wrong in a political argument, it only makes either side further entrenched in their opinion.

You don't know how lucky you are to be alive and living where you are here and now. I hope when you're older you can experience new things and widen your view on the world, perhaps then you will see that your apologist stance is shared only by shit-smeared mongoloids. I won't be spending my evening arguing any further.

 

[Husky]

I don't know why I am humoring you with a reply, no one has ever convinced another that they are wrong in a political argument, it only makes either side further entrenched in their opinion.

You don't know how lucky you are to be alive and living where you are here and now. I hope when you're older you can experience new things and widen your view on the world, perhaps then you will see that your apologist stance is shared only by shit-smeared mongoloids. I won't be spending my evening arguing any further.

did I say I liked the USSR in any way?

 

[Dallas]

Both great evils, but I think it would be silly to humour the possibility that the Nazi ideology was somehow more noble than Stalinism

In just a few short years, Nazism wiped out millions in a totally pointless ideological quest - it didn't even have the goals that Stalinism held (industrialisation) but was instead motivated solely on racial grounds that would actually hinder the German war effort.

It's one of the reasons why I am astonished there are people on this forum right now who unironically believe the Nazis to be saviours of Western civilisation.

 

[Black Rain (1989)]

Nazis were worse imo. West German / Allied revisionism for the cause of German rearmament led to a lot of post war sentiment for the Germans. And in general their ideology was more perverse than Stalinism.

But the Soviets were almost as bad. The Gulag Archipelago is a sobering reminder of that.

Read Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands for a good comprehension on that.

Ultimately it boils down to if one adapts an Intentionalist or Functionalist philosophy regarding post-war historiography, personally I am a functionalist and I believe that the German bureaucrats were just as complicit in the murder of innocent people across Europe as the Nazis were - Eichmann for example.

Perfect reading for that is Hannah Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem.

Perfect book for understanding the kind of historiography debate this thread is focused on is RJ Bosworth's Explaining Auschwitz and Hiroshima.

I suggest reading up about the Historikerstreit debates of the 80s, and the ideas put forward but Ernst Nolte and Michael Stürmer - although keep in mind things like Ostpolitik and Politikgeschichte.

 

[Ond]

it didn't even have the goals that Stalinism held

L E B E N S R A U M

 

[Black Rain (1989)]

It's one of the reasons why I am astonished there are people on this forum right now who unironically believe the Nazis to be saviours of Western civilisation.

Only edgy man children unironically support Nazism / Soviet ideology.

If they had actually read a history book in their life they wouldn't support any of these ideas.

 

[Dallas]

Perfect reading for that is Hannah Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem.

cheeky
for my own understanding of the fascist ideology, i also read some Arendt - her book The Origins of Totalitarianism, very sobering read, it's clear that what we saw happening in Germany was not an isolated incident of culture coming to a poisonous boil, but actually a warning that such a monstrous tragedy could come from any nation

and that worldview has been vindicated time and time again (serbia, rwanada, uganda, syria)